Poor Elena, I had a bad feeling about the match but I certainly didn't think she was gonna get pounded the way she did. I love her but it's hard to see he winning a GS soon with all the solid players out there plus the young gunnettes beginning to emerge.

If only pinch-serving would be allowed in tennis!

And now that we're talking about here, she's like a million times better than moneypova, shriekapova or whatever her name is. She should be banking on all those endorsements.

Pete you've managed to capture the pathos of poor elena. She used to drive me nuts with that serve; now she still exasperates me, but I've become quite fond of the way she shrugs off not having the most basic tool in the tennis toolbox. Now I feel sadder than ever that she lost.

Tea's gone cold I'm wondering why
Got out of bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window
And I can't see at all
Even if I could it would all be grey
Like the picture on my all
It reminds me
That it's not so bad
It's not so bad.

That's what this made me think of. Boy do I feel for the dignified, hard-working (and beautiful) Elena Dementieva. Amazing evocation of her mood, Pete.

She needs to chase after Roddick, before the other purdy Russian girls nabs him. Think of the possiblities..

1. a girl/boy with Roddick serve and Dementiva grondies and athleticism

2. a girl/boy with Demmie serve and Roddick's grondies and athletecism

alright..Maybe it is not such a good idea!

As a hardcore Dementieva fan who went to all her matches here, today was crushing. Lena was never really in the match until the last game at 62 51 down. She had played super in all of her previous 4 matches (especially yesterday against Rezai) but today she just was a step or a step-and-a-half slow, and with Jankovic on a hot streak, that was all it took to make the match a rout. She wasn't quite there mentally at the start of the match, and on another day against Jankovic, she might have gotten away with it. But i think Jankovic surprised Lena with the strength of her forehand today (everybody knows how good JJ's backhand is), and Lena just seemed tentative about what to do, when what she should have done was dig in and play defense and play a few 50 shot rallies if that's what it took to rattle her zoning opponent. I mean, i really thought Dementieva was ready to win. Like i said she looked slow, but she also missed a few chances to keep the match close, and poorly wasted both her replay challenges early in the 2nd set - which to me was a sign that she wasn't mentally sharp. It's like this is a Grand Slam quarterfinal, bring your best game, and if you lose, you lose. But don't lose like that.

Pete, this is a lovely, evocative piece about how tough every tournament is for every player in the draw but one. At least in NASCAR and the TdF they let the # 2 and 3 finishers on the podium.

I am surprised, though, that you didn't channel Sabatini's coach (Ralston?) who, when faced with the same critique of his charge (no serve), replied (paraphrasing here): "I spend all my time answering the 1-800-Give-Gabby-A-Serve hotline."

Jankovic must be kidding if she thinks Elena's serve is trouble. Elena's serve is the main reason why she'll never be a grand slam winner. I do feel sorry for Elena D, but she has been playing with this awful serve for years, and it seems she hasn't worked to change it. It's a serve that DOESN'T belong in professional tennis. You would think she would be so ashamed of it, that she would try to improve it, but she doesn't even try. Maybe this will be a wake up call to her that she'll have to improve her serve or remain the best player to never win a slam. She always talks about how hard she works, but I don't believe her because I can't see any changes she has made. When the power hitters were beating Justine she worked hard and changed her entire game so she could compete. I just DON'T see the same dedication with Elena D. Go Justine!

Dementieva is overranked for her overall skill level and mental prowess... she overperforms, if you ask me... im sure she's a nice girl, but after this many yeras, if you cant add something to your game, just accept it, enjoy your prize money and quarterfinals, and forget it ...

the schedule tomorrow, is a joke ... Roddick and Sharpova, what a shocker... Nadal and Fed, second class citizens... in the brave almost but not exactly words of the rockin; Dixie Chicks, Im embarrased to be a USTA member right now ...

Tim, I agree and it show you the sad state of the WTA when someone like Elena D can be a top ten player.

What to do, Tim? Media folks are drooling at the thought of a Shrieky-Andy affair, and perhaps this is their way of speeding things up between the two.

(Gives Elena a hug)

Gah. Listen. The top 10 is a relative measure, not an absolute one. If your results are better than everyone else's bar nine players, you're in the top 10 regardless of your mental or technical deficiencies. And Elena has been there for years. She's got to be doing something right.

Is this second-guessing the rankings a symptom of acute rain-delay disease?

Lucy, i said I think Dementia is a nice girl, but i she truly thinks she can win a Slam with her game, she's kidding hersefl...thtas all.. I ll give her a hug too, but lets get real... she stinks up the court so often on the big stages... thats just fact...

You said "overranked". I think that's a little harsh, not to mention counterfactual. But I agree that the Slam winners play at a higher level than her.

Anyway. As long as we're all hugging her, it's all good.

Of all the words I would use to describe Dementieva's face, "equine" isn't one that I would ever choose. I'm sure you meant well, Mr. Bodo, but perhaps an edit is in order: most folks I know consider being called "horse-faced" an insult.

As for Dementieva herself, I admire how far she's managed to make it without a reliable serve. If only the rest of my game was strong enough to cover up for my suspect back hand that well. :-)

I even felt bad and I'm not even a fan of ED. This Jelena really likes being the underdog. Can she handle the pressure of expectation?

lets just stop the Slam talk for Demntia...its ridiculous!

But Paul - I love horses. . . and you can't NOT call her that just because it sounds like it might be negative. Who cares?

Tim, typically you're the man and I agree with you and all, but I've just woken up from a 3-hr nap and my head's on straight and I wanna give Lena D. a hug, too. IT must be tough getting *so* close so many times (2004: USO finals, 2005: USO SF, loses to Mary Pierce in 3 sets after that controversial 12-minute "injury" timeout, 2006: QF) and STILL being the bridesmaid. AS happy as I am for JJ after her horrible start to the year, you gotta feel for Lena.

Pete wrote:

"I wanted to jump out of my seat during Elena Dementieva's press conference today (she was crushed by Jelena Jankovic, 6-2,6-1)and give her a big hug."
---------------------------------------

Pete, please. Get back on your medication, and let this sentimentality pass! Its soo not the you I've come to know at this site! ;)!

That little Jelena is a mean girl. Oh, yeah, I hear all the cute little thank you's she's servin up in New York, but here in LA (Carson), she was mean, mean, mean! I like that in a player... ;)!

Ray wrote about JJ being a baseline basher, but when I saw Jelena in Carson, she showed more variety to her game. The baseline bashers were Safina (whom I'm sure Amelie will dismiss) and Vania King.

As for Dementieva and her serve, I can't figure how a top player can get by without a decent serve with today's oversized racquets and player increased athleticism (they'll play whack the serve!).

Paul: Hey, he called *me* grumpy. Elena got off easy, if you ask me.

I'm sweetness, innocence, and light. We all know it.

Nancy J, I hope you're right about the outcome of the Amelie-Dinara match. I'm quaking in my boots at the thought of the "big babe" Safina coming up against my favorite player. Sure she's got confidence, but her form leaves much to be desired. She better COME TO NET. She is so pretty there. And EFFECTIVE.

Oh, life. Once again I will probably have to obsess in front of the scoreboard tomorrow morning instead of watching Amelie because they will be too busy televising Lindsay-JHH. quick, who knows what the forecast is for tomorrow?

momo, if Amelie can come thorugh a 6-0 thrashiong with that kind of calm, nothing Safina can throw at h er will matter.. yhour girl will be fine..

momo - clear some chance of showers. probably be ok. weekend could manage to be iffy. this could become a battle of nerves this weekend.

I don't see how talk of a Slam is "ridiculous" for any player who has reached two GS finals.... and she could have easily won either of those matches if her nerves hadn't betrayed her. That Myskina/Dementieva final must be the all time worst GS final in women's tennis history.

As for the schedule tomorrow, I SO wish I was in NY and could get one of the newly-released grounds passes. $20 to see Murray, Federer and Nadal on a great court, with the chance to be down low... are you kidding!!!

Many players have already expressed a preference for playing in Armstrong. I don't see how scheduling there makes them second class citizens unless its a pure ego thing. I can't imagine that Nadal is worried about that in the least. Its not like they are on an outer court somewhere. And obviously some concessions have to be made for the rain.

Jenn wrote:

"That Myskina/Dementieva final must be the all time worst GS final in women's tennis history."
-----------------------------

Okay, that score was weak, but for me that honor is reserved for:

1988 French Open Graf def Natalia Zvereva 6-0, 6-0

A double bagel in a GS final?

When you take up residence in the Top 10 for years on end, it's very, very hard to even think of tinkering with your game. Whatever you've been doing has been sufficient to better than all but say four players on the planet, meaning logically a little more work should push you over. The other thing is that her game is not a hobby a la some weekend hack, it's her meal ticket and in a lot of ways the essence of how Elena's defined.

Tiger Woods changed his game because he could see that deficiencies in his swing were keeping him from true greatness. I wonder if Elena has such motivation, number ones tend to do all they can to stay there. Number fives, well, they're usually a step below number ones (and know it) and are happy to be where they are for as long as they can be there, hoping a crumb (or a Grand Slam) will fall their way.

I think Elena walked into this Open thinking that there was not much of a gap between her and the top tier of players due to injuries and withdrawals. I think she more laments the missed opportunity to win a wide open Open, than believes she's a consistent major threat.

Darn, again my post has no name.

Elena has to get with the program. Sometimes, improvement and growth and even change is imperative. As BJK once said, a champion figures out why he or she is not winning, and takes steps to change things!

Nancy,

My point exactly, she's probably not a champion. A very good player, who may stumble into a major, but not a champion.

I don't understand the criticism of Elena, nor do I think she's "over-ranked". This isn't a matter of politics or votes. She's earned her ranking by beating most of the other players in most of the events, as a matter of objective points. Her serve is what it is. Obviously she's tried to improve it for her entire career, but she can't do it. That's certainly not her fault, any more than lack of movement isn't Lindsay's fault, or an inconsistent forehand which breaks down under pressure or on the run is a player's fault. I think she's incredible to be able to win so many matches with that serve.

Who cares that she'll never win a slam because of her serve? That doesn't make her any less "worthy" of being perceived as a great player and competitor. She's the #5 player in the world, because of her incredible talent and relentless desire and drive, which is so immense that it can overcome that weak serve, against nearly all of the best players in the world, and has taken her to slam finals.

I really like her, and also think she has the best shriek in tennis. It' so spontaneous and feminine that I always enjoy it. She's also a thoughtful person, or at least seems so, though I really don't know much about her.

I frankly can't think of a single thing to criticize her personally for, as a player or a person.

"She's also a thoughtful person, or at least seems so, though I really don't know much about her. "

My impression of her as a person is based on the speech she gave after losing the 2004 US Open final, which was held on Sept. 11. She gave a thoughtful speech on 9/11 and the indicident in Russia where many children were killed earlier that year, and I (and the rest of the crowd) was moved by what she had to say.

Though I'm not that fond of her game, I've felt for her since then.

Bob wrote:

"Obviously she's tried to improve it for her entire career, but she can't do it."
-------------------------------

Being ChrissieE (semi) KAD, I heard that argument about her so many times back in the day (especially once she became stronger, more fit, and a tad faster in other parts of her game -- including her net game).

She managed to change/improve so much about her game, but other than adding a little pace in the late 80's and a "kick serve," she basically had a vulnerable serve from day 1 to 0.

I accepted it as "she can't do it." Then, one day I heard Tony Trabert talk about a very few simple ways that she could improve! It sounded good to me. Her problem was mental, not "can't do it" physically.

Perhaps the same is true with Demmy. But one thing is clear, at the end of Chris' career, even with her alright serve, the hard hitters or fast players were starting to play whack the serve (or in those days -- whack the volley on the short ball serve -- I just watched the Golarsa 89 quarter Wimbie match). Today, not having a half decent (I'm not talking Serena W.) serve is a must.

But, who knows? Maybe she'll prove all doubters wrong.

Mental problems are just as limiting as physical problems, and it's unrealistic and unfair to criticize a player who (very rationally) gets nervous because of some of the shots which come off of her racquet when she's serving.

The melding of mental and physical is inherent in sports. Golf is a perfect example. It's easier to examine since it's a purely offensive sport. The ball is just sitting there at rest. You aren't running to hit it, worrying about the spin or speed the other player has, nor worrying about overhitting it, unless you notice that lake behind the green, but decide to go for the back pin anyway.

I can hit shots as well as Tiger Woods or Annika. I've done it hundreds or thousands of times. I can't hit them as far, but I can hit them, and hitting them is what keeps me coming back for more bleeding. What I can't do is hit them consistently. That's mental in many respects. I obviously have the physical skills to hit those shots, since I hit them frequently. Some of it is muscle memory, and it does take two/three rounds a week to get my game in top shape. At that point I can par about half the holes. That takes some good, consistent shotmaking. That's it, however. Only a handful of times in my life have I been within six strokes of par after 18 holes.

I don't have the mental consistency to do it for 18 holes. Obviously I have the physical skills, but that's not enough. I do think nearly all sub-scratch golfers and top pro tennis players have superb mental toughness. In the big moments, however, pressure affects all of them; and when you have a seemingly incurable problem like Elena's serve, I don't expect her to be in a good mental place in huge matches.

The mental states of players ebb and flow, just like those of golfers. When Phil is not driving well, it doesn't seem to get better that day. When he is driving well, he keeps it up, generally. We can't expect players to be consistent, and they aren't. Justine has been like ice in some huge matches, and very tight in others. So have Amelie, Kim, Lindsay, Steffi, Federer, and some others. Federer is so good that his weak days are still good enough to beat virtually everyone, but he's the only player like that. You can beat Justine on an off day for her. You can beat any of the top players, except Federer.

Elena is a very rich and intelligent woman. She's almost certainly studied everything about serving, tried every possible stroke, and had lots of coaches work with her. I can't imagine any other scenario, given her talent and that pitiful serve. It is pretty amazing that she can't serve decently, when she's so good on everything else, but it's a reality which seems unlikely to change.

Bob wrote:

"...can hit shots as well as Tiger Woods or Annika. I've done it hundreds or thousands of times."
----------------------------------

Dude, you are simply amazing!

Me, just a hacker and a fan, could never hit that danged double fisted backhand of ChrissieE's as much as I tried! Its the one handed slice for me (cause that's all I can do!). LOL

Well, Bob, if Demmy can't improve, que sera. Can she complete the wins against the big guns for the GS's with what she has? Tis as simple as that! I expect no excuses from her.

Tennis is totally unlike golf, since it's so much harder to hit a moving object, when you are also moving, and when the opponent is trying to hit a shot which is hard for you to hit; and when there is such a variety of shots to hit, and you also have to hit to a very limited area, and worry about where the opponent is, and other things. There are so many variables and such athleticism involved that it's totally different.

One of the selling points of golf is that you can hit shots just like the best golfers in the world, and you frequently do. I drove a short par four earlier this year, hitting my drive to the fringe, and sinking the putt for the third eagle of my life. I've hit hundreds of amazing shots, and loved each one of them. It's what makes golf so popular. Every golfer hits great shots. Every golfer sinks 40 foot putts, and holes bunker shots now and then.

It's all a matter of consistency, and it's very frustrating. When you connect perfectly and drive a ball out there more than 250 yards (which is pretty much my upper limit), you wonder why you can't do that almost every time, and though when you are driving well in a round, you tend to drive well almost all day, it's still rare that I can drive the ball that far consistently, or more than a few times in a round.

Elena can beat any of the top players on a given day, even in slams, and has done so. I watched her beat Justine earlier this year. She has nothing to be ashamed of, and everything to admire, as I see it. I'd be unhappy with my serve if I was her, too, and wouldn't deny the obvious reality that it costs me matches. I don't see that as making excuses. Merely telling the truth.

Pete said:

"But Paul - I love horses. . . and you can't NOT call her that just because it sounds like it might be negative. Who cares? "

Well, I'd think a writer would, even if they are just a lowly press pariah. :-) To quote Twain:

"The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is the difference between the lightning and the lightning-bug."

Paul and Pete, even though horseface is considered ac insult I understand what Pete wants to say, Elena does have an equine face but that's not bad at all; she's gorgeous and that equine face is a big part of it!

pete, i particularly love this line in your post: "To which I say, begone, naysayers! (Hey, I like that, I sound rather Shakespearian, no?)" --> i did think it sounded biblical, as in, get behind me, satan. for some of the naysayers in these threads, esp with regard to elena and her serve, i would prefer the latter allusion. *throws suction dart onto forehead of one particular poster in mind*

i felt Badly for elena in the match. i was following the match on eurosport (pc live streaming) while our cable network featured the murray-davydenko match. i couldn't bear to watch the second set, i refused to believe that jankovic could and was walking over pretty elena, who, as i recall, prefers to let her tennis do the talking, or rather, shutting down, or up, of players like shriekapova. then while i was watching andy struggle to make something happen in the second set, i heard the announcer say in surprised french, "jankovic just won over dementieva!!! six-deux, six-trois!" i left the men's match in a hurry and ran to my pc and indeed, i saw jankovic prancing around ashe (ray, i got the court right this time), grabbing her towel and water bottle, all the while befuddled as the announcer herded her to the middle of the court, the microphone picking up her, "oh my god, i can't believe it...!" the whole while.

pete, nice post. 126 losers in a slam. the 127th suffers the most, i believe. amelie has felt it pre-2005, and roddick said of his crushing 2005 wimbledon loss to roger, "i won six matches and lost the crucial one." somehow, the run into the second sunday ring hollow when you get only a plate to lift and not that cup of a trophy.

ray stonada: i LOVE dido.

a-haaaaaay want to thank you
for giving me the best da-hay of my laaa-ha-haaayfffff

me, i'm a girl but i think elena is uber pretty. equine or not. she has this fragile, feminine appeal that shriekapova doesn't have. i keep comparing her to maria because i know elena doesn't like maria. in fact, for that alone, i want elena to win over maria, to put roddick's girl in her place. doesn't seem likely in the next few years, though. *sighs*

tim, i must agree with jenn. being put on armstrong is not such a big deal kind of slight as you are taking it... it looks better on tv, too, the shots at armstrong. i like it that the exit is across from where the players sit, so that when they enter and exit, they have to walk across the court to their seats and vice versa. me likey.

Some defeats are easy to overcome and some just leave a mark that never completely fades away. Elena's words remind me a lot of some Amélie post-matches' GS interviews over the last few years: another loss, another huge disappointment, another year goes bye. I hope Elena can turn disappointment into positive energy like Amélie did after her devastating losses against Elena herself in the Fed Cup final a year ago.
I'm not a Dementieva fan but I can't help liking the girl. Plus, every time I (try to) play tennis I keep reminding myself that if she can do it with that serve I can too! if only I could hit a similar forehand...
As for Dementieva's GS chances, I wouldn't count her out, not just yet.

Offtopic: I'm still in awe at how Amélie managed to beat an in-form, great-serving Serena without her own serve.It almost tastes like another Slam title!

this is an interesting article i nipped from the US open news section. i like the men's selection... most of the young ones i like are in the list except for robredo: http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/articles/2006-09-05/200609051157498745156.html

just watched the match again (jankovic-dementieva).

too many errors, elena dear. and jankovic showed a lot of hustle and great anticipation in the exciting rallies... i can see elena's point, though, about justine giving jelena a tougher time with justine's variety on court.

"Can't win every week, you know, mate? Heck, 95 per cent of the pros don't win in any week."

Didn't Jankovic start the year 0-10 or something? Well, this just shows what a little stick-to-it-iveness can do for you. It's a streaky game, this tennis thing.

Speaking of which, Elena's sticking with that serve has got to change. Her negative outlook would turn around if she could plug a few aces (or heck, forced errors off the returns - let's not get greedy) into her service games. With her inherent athleticism, it wouldn't take all that much effort to get that happening. That toss is so far to the right it makes Ann Coulter look like Cindy Sheehan.

Tracy Austin made a comment during yesterday's match about Elena changing her serve due to an arm injury a few years ago. Apparently she can serve "normally" in practice, but reverts to the modified serve during matches. Richard Krajicek was enlisted to help her and said that it was a mental thing with her.

"Didn't Jankovic start the year 0-10 or something? Well, this just shows what a little stick-to-it-iveness can do for you."

yeah, stick-to-it-iveness, and maybe, possibly, just a little help from the doping doc? Her dramatic turnaround is a little too much for me not to wonder.

Gee Clayton, how about help from an ACTUAL doc? Jankovic had a virus at the end of last year that left her drained from tennis (sound familiar?) and as she lost confidence she kinda just spiraled out of control into the beginning of this year. Because of this illness tennis was no longer a joy and she was thinking about becoming a full-time student. Then she went into the red clay season, got into a nice run in Rome and made it to the 3rd round of RG, and that seemed to make her believe that she could play her best tennis again. Which is *exactly* what she's been doing since then.

Everyone makes too much of her serve. Here are the statistics:

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day15/2503ms.html

She served better than Jankovic, except for the 5-1 double fault ratio and a few mph less on the first serve. She had a better percentage, and her second serve was faster than Jankovic. Both of them have slow first serves, and pretty mediocre second serves.

It was the play of the points which decided that match, with 39 unforeced errors,to 16 for Jankovic.

5 Doubles can be a factor in a close match, depending on when they occur, but not in a match with this kind of score. Jankovic has a pretty weak serve, but Elena couldn't/didn't attack it. She just didn't play that well. It happens. They could play tomorrow and Elena might win. Jankovic played great tennis. Elena didn't.

The serve is not that big a deal for most players in the women's game, except on the grass, in most matches. That's why there are so many breaks of serve. It's an advantage, but nothing like with the men. It's virtually always the play of the points which decides women's matches, except sometimes on the grass, with a good serve and volleyer. This wasn't bad serving by Elena's standards. I've seen her win matches against very good players with serving which was far poorer than this.

People who say Dementieva is not a Slam contender are way off base. She was serving fine in her previous matches and she didn't lose to Jankovic because of her serve, she lost because her ground game was not there. People get so obsessed about her serve because it looks funny, but it's not the point. She was regularly bringing the thing at 110 mph in her earlier rounds and holding most of her service games. If Lena had played against Jankovic the way she played against Zvonareva or Rezai, she'd be in the USO semi's. The fact that she did not, was a mental failure to show up on her part. But it's not proof that she can't win a Slam title.

Paul - great line from Twain.

Clayton: I'd agree, except she never brings a 110 mph serve regularly. None of the players do. That's not far below what many of the men average. The top women average about 104mph on the first serve. Elena has been serving at 94mph-98mph in this event. Like most of the women, she is usually in the low 80's on her second serve. Justine is the only woman who is usually at 90 mph or above on her second serve. Amelie was at 102/87 against Serena. Sharpova was at 100/90 against Li. Davenport was at 100/88 against Schnyder. Justine was at 104/95 against Peer.

Federer was at 116/97 against Spadea, who was at 106/88. Moya was 109/97 against Blake, who was 113/94. The big servers can average more than 120, but most of the guys don't. Rochus, at 5'4", was only 96/83 against Safin, appreciably below the top women.

Elena had lots of unforced errors, and Jankovic had a great match. It had nothing to do with serving.

Bob, it is very interesting to be able to compare the serving speeds of the players, both men and women. But this does not take into consiederation depth and placement.

I thought Serena's serve vs. Amelie looked unlike any other serve on the women's tour, deeper, more penetrating, lower. am I wrong?

The fact that Dementieva, if I read correctly, did not hold serve once in her match with JJ seems to be enough to render much of this discussion irrelevant. True, the service motion is not everythimg there is to consider in holding serve, but really... to fail to hold serve once is just too much!

Clayton: I hope that you're dead wrong re: your comment about Jankovic's improper help with her turnaround and recent performances. I'm still trying to get over the fact that my fave Venus was stopped in one Slam by the proven doper, Karatancheva; surely, the same thing couldn't have happened to her (VW) again at Wimbledon. No way! Can't be! Heck, no!

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112684
Federer declines Nadal's doubles offer.

Cautious Roger Federer has politely declined an offer from top rival and friend Rafael Nadal to team up in doubles next month at the Madrid Masters.
..."It was a nice idea of Rafael and it would be a great promotion for tennis," Federer said. "But I just never play doubles at the end of the season, and if I did, it would be with Yves."

I've always like Serena's serve. The first time I noticed it was during a hardcourt match against Graf during the spring of 1999. Her combination or power and placement impressed me even back then. She hasa nice service motion, which is not prone to breaking down (like Venus's often has).

Elena's serve has a different trajectory than that of the other players. She often gets away with it, but especially against the top few players, she is not going to get many free points with it.

vanfan: Serena's serve looked great, but she was only at 100/80, a very poor second serve which was attackable. The taller players can hit for wider angles, and their ball will bounce higher after it hits, but these are not large differences in angles, considering the opponenent's service line is 96 feet from the server. It is certainly noticeable, with the tall players having a bigger target area because of that small angle advantage, but we do need to keep it in perspective. They lump service winners in with winners, and I'd like to see pure service winner statistics.

Obviously Justine's serve will average much more depth than a taller player, since she has less of a target area because she's so short, yet still hits the ball so hard. It would be nice to see graphics displaying placement, like they sometimes show on TV, so we can compare them. Serena does seem to have great placement. Federer often has amazing placement. Without statistics, however, we really are speculating and relying on our memories of what seemed to be happening.

I would think that the taller players would hit the ball with less depth, on average, than the short players, given that they are serving at the same speed, but have a larger margin for error because of their height. The idea is to keep the ball in play. Sharapova can hit the same speed as Justine, yet get the ball over the net and keep it further from the line, which gives her an advantage in percentage, and that's what the statistics show. Justine usually has a crummy percentage.

There is no way to measure placement/accuracy without a graphic display, but I imagine all the players have placement which is not far different from the others. I really don't know, because we can't measure it.

Live tennis.

Murray's very negative on court with his body language.

Yeah, he always is, but this is as bad as it gets.

Svelte:

With the day off (to think), I think Marat gets hurt (relative to yesterday's match pick for Safin based on consecutive-day playing).

However, if he beats Haas and plays his quarter tomorrow, he will win and face Fed in the semis. (Oh, that we could see that matchup!)

Matt (and anyone else watching): Match reports would be appreciated (esp for the JHH-Davenport match). I won't get to catch the action till after work tonight. :-(

A Fed-Safin matchup would be nice. If Safin shows up, it would be Fed's first real test (assuming he wins easily tonight as we all expect).

So Davydenko tells the real story of Cincy and Fed... dismissed Murray's win, very interesting... anyone have the press conference t-script?

Davydenko fights off a couple break points to go up 4-love on Murray in the fourth.

Jim Courier just read some quotes from Nikolai on Murray. Tough talk from Mother Russia....

Momofan:

If Davydenko wins this in 4, Momito on court at 9am.

5-love Davydenko.

In other words, Mauresmo-Safina on Armstrong at Noon ET / 9 PT.

ok, murray is close to booking a first class ticket on the Mental Express, seated next to regular travelers like Malisse, Schnyder, Safin, Keifer and a few dozen more ... Gilbert is gonna tar and feather him affter this effort...

I'm scared for Amelie. I like Dinara but would love to see Amelie become a 3 time Major winner.

Safin-Fed would be awesome, if Safin shows up to play.
Go Marat.

This one made me laugh alot and finally smile through my tears, Pete.
I'd say ED's lack of serve is more like choosing to wear no boots during her national soccer team forays, than having no feet.
JJ was stomping all over those nekkid dogs!

If technique is an issue, there is plenty of time before the Aussie Open for Ed to change up her serve. Her learning curve is so steep she'll need a helmet to combat the G's she'll pull on the way up.
A few readers noted that the competitive serve is something she chooses by default- i.e., there's a mental problem behind her weak delivery. In that case, fuggedaboudit.
ED's overhead looks pretty sound.
*tears up*

I fear a four or five set Safin match, which will take Justine's match far into the future. We wont' see it, since Roddick will be playing. That damn rain last night.

they will have to show Davenport JHH, no doubt about it... wow what a day, Blake Berdych, Hewitt Roddick, geez...

how can the stadium be empty?? well Fed and nadal are the invisible men today, we wont get to see much of them, thats for sure...

I didn't mean Roddick, who plays at night. I meant Federer or Nadal, either of who will be playing on Armstrong when the Safin match is over on Ashe.

Right now they should be showing Amelie. I could care less about Safin and Haas. Neither of them is going to make the final. These men's matches take too long. They need to show the women's matches, which are much shorter.

Bob,

Justine's a day match, Roddick and Sharapova at night.

We'll see it, don't worry (too few matches competing at this point in the tourney...)

Haas now up 4-1 in the second. Looking at a minimum of 4 sets with Safin.

Well, Amelie's not on the court yet, but soon will be. Yet it wouldn't surprise me if they keep showing Safin. Amelie needs to pick up her game to beat Safina, but I think she will. She was nervous against Serena, and didn't play or serve that well. Safina will be nervous, and I expect straight sets for Amelie; but then Sharapova to beat her in the semis. It would be something if Amelie caught fire and beat Sharapova, and made another final. It's certainly possible, but she needs to play appreciably better than she's been playing.

Justine's match will compete with Federer, and I'll be irked no matter what happens, since they are both my favorites. It's a win-win and lose-lose situation all at once. I'd prefer they show Justine, since Federer's match will be a pure blow-out. I've never seen his opponent play, and never even heard of him before this event.

Amelie is on court. Let's switch over, TV.

Bob,

On Armstrong, it's Amelie, then Fed, then Nadal. Fed's and Justine's matches are likely to coincide somewhat. If those two matches are competing, the women's quarter will definitely be shown over and against Fed's match against a journeyman player.

Possible scenario, Bob:

Amelie wipes out Safina in 55 minutes. Safin and Haas go a long 5.

If that were to happen, Fed would take the court an hour to 80 minutes, maybe even 100 minutes, before Justine. Fed wipes out Gicquel in a buck-twenty, and we have almost no overlap.

My hunch on current TV coverage, Bob:

After set two ends in Haas-Safin, they'll switch to Amelie on Armstrong.

2-love Amelie right out of the gate.

I hope you're right, Matt, but here we are watching a fourth round men's match in a meaningless set, when a women's quarterfinal is going on where each set is important. I do expect them to switch over when Haas wins this set.

Haas takes the second set. Commercial break on USA.

Will they show Amelie? Stay tuned. (Insert soap-operatic organ tremor here.)

THEY'RE SHOWING AMELIE!

I don't want Justine's match to compete with Nadal. They are too hyped over Nadal. I want Safin to take the next two sets and get this over with, but you never know with Marat. Good. Amelie is on.

Well, we're definitely watching a women's tennis match: four straight breaks of serve.

As the late Steve Irwin would say, "CRIKEY!"

Amelie needs to come in. She's not playing well enough to beat Safina from the baseline. I expect her to do that more as the match goes on, but I think she's getting in the groove and hoping Safina will start making errors, and if Safina does, Amelie won't need to come in much. She will against Sharapova, however.

Pro players talk a lot about (and Jankovic was the last player I heard say this, as that was the last match I saw before another tsunami-like wave of rain hit) not worrying about the other player's game, just 'playing their own game'. I'm not sure where this breaks down for each individual player, but yesterday, Dementieva REALLY needed to change her game once she realised her strokes were off. Instead, she chooses to hit every shot a little harder than the last, giving Jankovic all the pace she needed. Jankovic doesn't like to create her own pace. That one telling fact would have garnered Dementieva the second set. And who knows where the match would have went then. Instead, we hear all the time how players will just bring their own game, focus on hitting their own shots, or something similar. But when your opponent is not surrendering under your deluge of shots, something has to give. Dementieva repeatedly overhit and overhit, when taking a little off some of her cross courts to Jankovic's forehand would have thrown her off even a little.

When asked if she would be paying close attention to the next match up between JHH and Davenport, as she would play the winner, Jankovic giggled and basically said "Of course not!" AS IF!! And sure, to a degree, that's what coaches are for and that's understandable. But to come in to every match, thinking that your goods are best no matter the circumstances (and I think this is what Wilander was saying all along and I agree wholeheartedly), and that you don't need a fallback plan, losing is going to be an integral part of your game as well.

FIVE straight breaks in Amelie's match (Mauresmo up 4-2 and serving).

Safin (not Safina) up 3-love in the third!

Amelie with a solid, clean service game. She holds at love for 5-2.

Amelie's picked up her game, and Safina is very nervous and isn't playing or serving well. This should be two quick sets. I hope they show all of them.

Um, I think this might be a remotely significant statistic:

Safina won three points on serve in set one.

6-2 Mauresmo, who will serve to open the second.

Kenneth; I agree. Elena wasn't patient enough. She's very fit, and Jankovic wasn't hitting winners. She should have kept her running, to try to get the error, like Amelie did against Serena. She overhit a great deal, and never changed her strategy.

Safina is self-destructing. It's too big a match for her, against too great a player. She's also not patient. The more she misses, the harder she hits. I expect a quick second set. Amelie still isn't playing great tennis though, and hasn't beaten anyone. Not great preparation for what she'll face from Sharapova, but the main thing is to get to that match, so this is a good match for Amelie. It's not her fault the other players are not playing well. She's so talented that she can bring great tennis in any match.

4-1 Safin in the third.

Hopefully Amelie will not go on a walk-about and get an easy win today. This match ain't over yet.

Are they still showing the Amelie match or will they switch to Safin? I'm still nervous as heck, you know.

Back to Safin's match, and Tommy is now wearing a hat. Wonder why?

Amelie has broken Dinara to go up 2-0 in the second set.

We need to watch Amelie. This third Safin set isn't deciding. Amelie's is. Safina is not going to play much better. The pressure is even greater now that she needs to win the set. Amelie doesn't need to win the set. Safina will lose it without much trouble.

a dream final would also be an inform Sarfin vs. Nadal... I think Marat would pound him down, he's a better version of Berdych, clearly... interesting... can he pull of an Ivanisevic??

Mauresmo holds at love, 6-2, 3-0

Marat's two-handed backhand--crosscourt or down the line, doesn't matter--is gorgeous today. Safin holds for 5-2.

Why aren't they showing Amelie? Don't these people KNOW what watching a live scoreboard can do to a child's psyche???

ALLEZ AMELIE.

Momofan, I know these scoreboards suck. Where is US Open live. I loved Wimbie live.

Discussion point:

If it's Safin-Fed and Nadal-Hewitt, which match does CBS insist on being second (i.e., the sexier match in the better TV time slot)?

Hmmmmmmmmm...

Finally, Safina holds serve. First Dementieva now Safina. So much for the depth in women's tennis.