555 consecutive matches! And people accuse Fed/Rafaonclay of boringly consistent excellence.
It must've been such a shock when he lost the 556th.
Posted by dm29
07/19/2007 at 07:46 PM
Oh yeah the Maleevas.
Were they once all in the top 10 at the same time?
Posted by Dunlop Maxply
07/19/2007 at 07:49 PM
Vikram. I'm just typing in Amritraj on the ATP site. Unclear what Vikram's record is.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 07:54 PM
just did the same. clearly he's not upto family standards yet. he doesnt have his own wikipage.
I think I should create a stub for him. Especially if catching up on one's parent's accomplishments is such a big deal.
Posted by Lucy
07/19/2007 at 07:56 PM
Doubtless it is, Sahadev, but they have every other advantage to make up for it. Money/encouragement/understanding/access to facilities...
The fact is, though, that becoming a successful pro tennis player is an unlikely outcome for anybody. The child of a pro is probably still better placed than a random kid.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 08:01 PM
And I've already used up the team vs. individual sport card today. otherwise I would offer up a similar explanation for cricket and soccer.
Posted by Samantha
07/19/2007 at 08:04 PM
It's very rare to find members of the same family who are at the top of the sport. Venus and Serena are the only two I can think of. Both Kim and Lleyton had sisters who try to be pros, but both weren't very good. To me, this is why it's so important to go to college and make sure you have something to fall back on. I think that out of all the people who try to make a living off of tennis, not just to be superstars like Roddick, Justine or Roger, very few make a living off it. Maybe what? less then 1% who try. It's not a real stable career if you think about it. Look at poor Jen, she's 31, depressed and wondering what she's going to do. This is why college is so important. So yeah, I can understand people like Lindsay saying they don't want their kid to go into tennis, not the most stable career choice. An injury can take you out when you're young and then what do you do. Play the challenger like Dokic tried, or go back to Juniors like Young did. Also, a college career is something you can do for a lifetime, how long does the average tennis player last. Go Justine!
Posted by Sahadev
07/19/2007 at 08:06 PM
True. The question is how money, encouragement & understanding trade off with pressure...
Actually, I think this works to the advantage of younger siblings - they have access to the experience of older siblings, plus the drive to eclipse them. For instance: Jamie/Andy, Nikolay/Edouard, Oliver/Christophe, Serena/Venus, and if Novak is to be believed, his youngest brother is likely to be even more successful than he is...
Posted by Dunlop Maxply
07/19/2007 at 08:07 PM
I don't know much about the Amritraj family, although I have met, however briefly, the older generation.
I'll say this, though, if there were only three Amritraj brothers, to go three for three into the to 200 is something. All of these tennis parents ought to simply ask what Mr. and Mrs. Amritraj did, and do that.
By comparison, the Austin family only succeded at a 50% rate, with John and Tracy making the top 200, and Doug and Pam playing very good tennis but not quite at that level.
Posted by MrsSanta
07/19/2007 at 08:09 PM
I fully understand everyone's desire to ignore him but Marat and his sister Dinara are a pretty good example. Their mother was a relatively successful pro too.
Posted by Dunlop Maxply
07/19/2007 at 08:15 PM
The Safins! Indeed. Also, there are the relatively famous "Suks/Sukovas" -- well, depending upon how you define famous.
But at least today, everybody is getting some love.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 08:15 PM
But Dunlop, one of the Austin's made no. 1
Posted by Lucy
07/19/2007 at 08:15 PM
Right, the evidence does seem to point in favour of the younger siblings in tennis. On the other hand Marat is more successful than Dinara and Richard Krajicek more than Michaella (so far). Maybe the theory only holds when the siblings are the same sex?
Ptenis I fully support your Amritraj wikidrive.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 08:19 PM
Well there are J and P Macs.
Posted by Ray Stonada
07/19/2007 at 08:20 PM
Also, John was more successful than Patrick.
Might being the younger sibling mean one can look up to the older sibling, but not lookup to them TOO much, as if they were a parent. A lot of pros are the youngest of a tennis playing family: Lleyton, Andre, Pete.
Posted by Lucy
07/19/2007 at 08:20 PM
Outliers.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 08:21 PM
And IF ALL THE HYPE ABOUT ANDY is to be believed, he is going to be better than his brother.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 08:23 PM
The clijsters.
Posted by Sahadev
07/19/2007 at 08:25 PM
I thought for a moment you meant Roddick there. Which would be another example!
As for Murray, I think he has a good chance of being No.1, definitely top 3 material.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 08:25 PM
The Blakes on the younger sibling side.
Posted by Samantha
07/19/2007 at 08:26 PM
But Ptenisnet,Wasn't P-mac a loser? Didn't he only win like one single title in his career. I looked it up one day when he was trash talking Juju. It's very hard to think of siblings who are both at the top of the game. Go Justine!
Posted by Lucy
07/19/2007 at 08:26 PM
Those are some mighty snarky caps Ptenis. Something wrong with the idlis today?
Posted by Sahadev
07/19/2007 at 08:33 PM
LOL Lucy, you actually know what idlis are??
That might be OT. So, though I've never really cared one way or another about Lindsay Davenport, Go Lindsay!
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 09:27 PM
Idlis were very wrong today.
But the caps are rather proportionate to the amount of hype no?
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 09:28 PM
I ws offering P-Mac as a counter argument to the whole younger sibling theory. Unfortunately he seems to be the only one.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 09:28 PM
J-Cap has a brother who played college tennis too.
Posted by jhurwi
07/19/2007 at 09:39 PM
Parent/child combinations in baseball: Ken Griffey Sr. and Jr., Bobby and Barry Bonds. In both cases the son is a more successful player than the father.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 09:51 PM
Also James and Harry Potter.
Posted by DMan
07/19/2007 at 09:51 PM
I really enjoyed the prelude to the Lindsay interview, especially the bit about Kim and her website!!!
First, about Lindsay and her comments about never wanting to put a racket in her sons hands. I agree with Pete and others who indicated it was a bit disnigenuous. If Lindsay left it at, "Oh I don't know, or if he wants to play tennis I'll have to have a chat with him." Who better to advise a youngster about pitfalls of trying to play pro tennis than a top notch pro and a dad whose family comes from tennis? But in the big picture scheme it's hard for me to reconcile why Lindsay wants to come back immediately after giving birth while at the same time saying "I never want my (now) 6 week old baby to do what I am doing." If she had a daughter what would it sound like if said sure I can be a pro tennis player, have a kid, and return immediately to my career as a pro tennis player but God forbid my daughter follow in my footsteps, because it's so [horrible, hard, what ??????????????????????]
As for Lindsay's comeback, I was most surprised. OK one WTT match is one thing. It's one night, if she gets tired/injured she can be substituted and it's not like she is the only drawing card. It's festive and there's no pressure.
But she is playing doubles with Raymond in New Haven? What's that about? Girls just want to have fun, and she wants to test the waters. OK. Is this or isn't this a comeback? The fact that Lindsay appeared to be, in her words, 'one injury away from retirement' since 2004, it's quite surprising that after giving birth 6 weeks ago she seems almost too eager to return. (The appeal of motherhood not that great afterall?)
I am also seriously dubious about the whole Olympic thing. So Lindsay supposedly wants to play in Beijing next year?? Why am I dubious? Lindsay won the Olympics in 96 and planned to play Sydney in 2000 but was injured. But she totally BAILED on the opportunity of playing in Athens in 2004 - where she had a very good chance at winning gold - because she would rather play in the Tier III Cincy tournament. Four years later and she seriously thinks she wants to go all the way over to China (after playing in at least some events to be considered for the team and be match ready) just to play in the Olympics again? Even if it's doubles only with Raymond, what are they thinking as far as a couple of 30+ year olds?
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 09:57 PM
About the olympic thing. Doesnt she have to made herself available for fedcup to qualify?
Posted by ptenisnet
07/19/2007 at 10:04 PM
have to have.
Posted by skip1515
07/19/2007 at 10:18 PM
Parents and their children: the Fitzgibbons, the Mayers, the Heldmans. Pancho Gonzales' son (name?) also played on the tour for awhile, if I remember correctly.
Siblings: Chris and Jeanne Evert, and Sandy and Gene Mayer (again), the Gullicksons, the irrepressible Jensen brothers, and Tiriac and Yeti.
Posted by beb
07/19/2007 at 10:24 PM
I am so happy Lindsay is coming back she was my 3rd favorite player behind the William Sisters. GO Lindsay.
Posted by Narci
07/20/2007 at 01:02 AM
If you're financially set for life it is really not a big deal going back to work and juggling the family and career.
Funny how all these celebrities like Gwen Stefani and Gwyneth and now Lindsay talk about mother's guilt when leaving for work and about how difficult it is to attain that work/life balance. Please. Even Lindsay said she'd have her child with her at all times plus a nanny and hubby too! How difficult could it be? It's not like she's chained to her desk without any autonomy over her work schedule.
Posted by Sahadev
07/20/2007 at 01:48 AM
Tim and Chris Mayotte. Stefan and Hans Simonsson. Ken and Doug Flach.
Talking of Prakash ,he has been doing really well for the last couple of months. He and Rohan are in the qtrs of challengers .Rohan vs Aisham in the qtrs actually.
Posted by kingandre
07/20/2007 at 05:26 AM
Emilio,Jaiver and Arantxa Sanchez.The hewitts,Rochus brothers,Kings i think are siblings.not sure though.vania and phillip,ancic,korolev(cousin of anna kournikova),baghdatis brothers,there is another nieminen but i am not sure as to whether they are related.there should be a lot many more.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/20/2007 at 09:59 AM
hey there kingandre. it's been a while.
Posted by Rosangel
07/20/2007 at 10:01 AM
More siblings: Mario and younger sister Sanja Ancic. John and David Lloyd (John is the more successful, and younger). Vitas and Ruta Gerulaitis (Ruta was younger). Vitas senior was a teaching pro. We also have Agnieszka and Urszula Radwanska.
Evgeny Korolev and Anna Kournikova are first cousins.
Posted by Rosangel
07/20/2007 at 10:21 AM
I tend to think that maybe it's easier for the child of a famous sportsperson to succeed at another sport, where the pressure of comparison is less, yet the lessons learned by the parent may still be worth something.
British tennis player Elena Baltacha is the daughter of a footballer, Sergei Baltacha, and her mother was an Olympic athlete. I think her brother played football as well. OK, she's not all that well known outside the UK, but has also had injuries/ilnesses to deal with.
I guess the Nadal family, in a broader sense, might be a good example.
In football, a sport on which I am no expert, Phil and Gary Neville spring to mind as a successful brother act. With a sister who's a netball international.
There's little doubt that the elder Schumacher brother is the more successful.
Bjorn Borg's son Robin learned to play tennis, and at one point a few years ago (I think it was when he played the exo at Buckingham Palace against McEnroe) his father said that he thought that he might turn out to be pretty good. But nothing much seems to have come of it.
Posted by Tokyo Tom (tt)
07/20/2007 at 10:23 AM
In sports few can match the Khan's in squash can they = and it seems generational excellence translates especially well in the National Football League.
Posted by susi
07/20/2007 at 11:48 AM
Tiki and Ronde (don't know if I spelled that right) Barber; Peyton and Eli Manning (dad Archie was a pretty accomplished quarterback as well, I believe) in the NFL
Posted by susi
07/20/2007 at 11:49 AM
ptenisnet -- *Harry and James Potter* LOL Very appropriate since we're at about 12 hours and counting!
Posted by M-Life
07/20/2007 at 01:00 PM
Pattrick-
Yes, I agree. Chaki should beat Patty Schnyder in the finals. The only other person who has a shot is Akiko Morgami.
Rosangel- you forgot Alona & Katerina Bondarenko.
Posted by codepoke
07/20/2007 at 01:04 PM
Damon Hill was a pretty good racer, and his father was Graham Hill. In fact, there are lots of racers whose children are dominant in the sport. The Earnhardts, Unsers and Andrettis all come to mind.
Posted by codepoke
07/20/2007 at 01:10 PM
Ptnisnet - On team versus individual sports and humility:
It seems that the very individuality of the sport might be what humbles the participants. My point being that members of team sports grow prouder of their successes over the years, but individuals bear their failures alone, endure their training alone, and suffer the pressure alone again and again. You can take credit for your successes alone, too, but even in your greatest day you make mistake after mistake. It's a very, very humbling game.
So, maybe us fans are naturally are drawn to people who look like they can survive that humbling.
I know nothing of golf, but it's a lone-wolf game, too. Are golfers also known for self-deprecation?
Posted by codepoke
07/20/2007 at 01:11 PM
Rosangel:
> I tend to think that maybe it's easier for the child of a famous sportsperson to succeed at another sport, where the pressure of comparison is less, yet the lessons learned by the parent may still be worth something.
Great point.
Posted by patrick
07/20/2007 at 03:48 PM
M-Life,
I do agree on Morigami being the player who can ruin the Anna-Patty final and Patty got to deal with her tonight.
Posted by Dunlop Maxply
07/20/2007 at 03:55 PM
Not that anyone is still reading, but in researching a post on the James Blake thread I noticed that there is a Miroslav Mecir Jr. on the ATP computer, with one point to his young name.
Go Mecir Jr.
Posted by Celia
07/20/2007 at 04:41 PM
Only one point? Dang.
Posted by ptenisnet
07/20/2007 at 05:11 PM
Dude beat someone ranked almost 1000 places above him to earn that point. That ought to be some sort of record.
Posted by Sam
07/20/2007 at 05:18 PM
DM: Neat. Wonder if he plays anything like his father, whose game I enjoyed watching.
Posted by Sahadev
07/20/2007 at 06:04 PM
I find myself rooting for Sergei Bubka Jnr. But the guy's been in the 300's for a while now...
Posted by ptenisnet
07/20/2007 at 06:05 PM
Sergei Bubka Junior, for one thing, shouldn't have any trouble jumping over the net after match point for the handshake.
Posted by Sahadev
07/20/2007 at 06:21 PM
Maybe he'd launch himself over it backward using his racquet as a prop? Now there's one more reason to wish him success...
Posted by ptenisnet
07/20/2007 at 07:06 PM
and knock his opponent over, and consequently, either adds injury to insult or exacts vengeance.
Posted by f
07/20/2007 at 07:27 PM
TVonline coverage?
anyone knows a website to watch online the Mercedes Cup Stuttgart games? What about the L.A. tournement?
Thank you
Posted by susi
07/20/2007 at 08:24 PM
The LA tournament is on the TC tonight at 8:30 Eastern US time, I believe. The James Blake/Vince Spadea match was on ESPN2 earlier this afternoon. Go James!
Posted by patrick
07/20/2007 at 09:50 PM
Beth,
Where are you going to be sitting at tomorrow morning in LA? I will be watching out for you. Can you describe what you will be wearing tomorrow. Look forward for your LA report on TW.
Posted by Samantha
07/21/2007 at 06:55 AM
Poor Marat, he's not in a slump, he's in decline. It's so sad because two years ago, he beat Roger and Lleyton to win the AO. That's not that long ago, and now he's losing to second tier players in the early rounds. What a waste of talent. You can never say never with a player, but I think it's much over for Marat as a top player. But good luck to him. Go Justine!
Posted by TF
07/21/2007 at 10:38 AM
Not sure if this thread is still really active - i think ptenisnet mentioned the Krishnan's earlier in the thread. While I was at Wimbledon during the first week, I noticed that (as far as I can tell), they're the only Father/Son duo to have won the Junior Wimbledon crown.
Posted by TF
07/21/2007 at 10:40 AM
Not sure if this thread is still really active - i think ptenisnet mentioned the Krishnan's earlier in the thread. While I was at Wimbledon during the first week, I noticed that (as far as I can tell), they're the only Father/Son duo to have won the Junior Wimbledon crown.