first?

2nd...

Just wait n watch ...

-------------****-----------------------------------------------
"GOD" is coming back on CLAY .....
in Monte Carlo ....
His first clay tournament of season ....
-------------****-----------------------------------------------

Bet if anyone can take even a Single SET out of him this clay season..... ha ha ha :-)

Since we're talking coaches...I can't help but rant again...

Why in the hail is the Fed sharing Jose with Robby, I know it's selfish as hail but come the FO, who is Jose going to coach??? What happens if their match is on the same day, or heaven forbid at the same time, whose box will he be in??? I don't like it one bit, especially now, that the Fed really needs to work on his groundies to get his timing back...the whole thing stinks IMO...

Serena already in trouble down 3-5.

Serena called the trainer... maybe for the fall she took during Srebo's last service game.

Master Ace - from the other thread.

If not Justine for the French, who do you think?

They just showed Serena's fall again. She really went down hard.

Extremely interesting stuff Pete.

"McEnroe was emotionally self-sufficient, but his window of dominance - glorious as it was - was small. He won all of his majors in just over five years - and in one of those years (1982) he took the first half of the year off."

Now I'm wondering, how of modern era big time multiple major winners won majors over more than five years? Or significantly so. Sampras comes to mind with that last win after a horrible dry period. And Agassi, but he crashed and burned for a period and then came back, so that doesn't seem to count.. So who was able to extend their major winning ways past five years. Interesting to know. Thanks.

Srebo serving for the set.. Serena trying to stay in it

Ace #4 15-0
Serena returns long 30-0
Serena's FH DTL goes into the net 40-0
Oh Pam's back.. lol
Serena returns very wide..

Srebo takes the first set

Beckham - seriously - I don't think Fed needs people...even a coach lite... in his BOX. He needs a coach to help him plan strategy. Scout a little and make some recommendations.
I take him at his word when he said that he has consciously worked to NOT be emotionally dependent on who is sitting in his box. And besides, honslty, will Robby even PLAY the FO? And if he does, will he get very far? Not at his current level and esp. not on clay. And if he does and proves me wildly wrong, (not an unknown occurrence), well than Jose can flip a coin. Fed might indeed need just a TEENY bit of a confidence boost right now, but he won't get it from a coach even if the guy is joined to him at the hip. He'll get it by getting some good perspective, utilizing same and winning matches.

See Katarina finally wraps the set up on her 4th chance(1st on serve). Hope Serena does not have to retire

Ad,
If not Justine, here is my pecking order as of today:
(1) Ana Ivanovic
(2) Maria Sharapova
(3) Elena Dementieva - even though she had 4 DFs in one service game today
(4) Jelena Jankovic
(5) Svetlana Kuznetsova

2nd set

Serena serving
Srebo returns to the net 15-0
Serena added tape to her ankle during changeover
Srebo returns long 30-0
Srebo returns long 40-0
Serena hits a FH CC with a great angle..

Serena 1-0

CL: this doesn't have anything to being joined at the hip, this is more of correcting the FH shanks and the only way to do that is to actually watch the match and see how it enfolds, the Fed does NOT need coaching during the match but before and after the match, he's making way too many errors on his groundies at the moment...and as Fed said, analyzing the match is also critical to seeing whether he and Jose will work out...how will they be able to do that if Jose doesn't even watch the match???

Srebo serving 0-1
Srebo FH winner 15-0
Serena return in the net 30-0
Serena FH winner.. she yells "come on!" 30-15
Serena returns to the net 40-15
Serena tries for a FH CC but it goes wide

1-1

Serena is really struggling

"who made the Roland Garros quarters in 1974."

Hellooo?

He won the tournament!

when did Serena's serve become such a liability???

Whitney, I presume you've moved the match call here?

Is Serena getting down to the ball. Why is she hitting everything in the net?

Serena serving 1-1
Serena hits the net 0-15
Serena hits the net again 0-30 She's grunting at every move
Ace down the T 15-30
Serena tries to return a short ball but into the net 15-40
Srebo hits the net.. it goes back on her side 30-40
Still break point
Serena with a FH winner into the open court - deuce
DF for Serena Ad Srebo
Serena at the net volley winner into the open court - deuce
Serena at the net again.. Srebo returns but it's wide - Ad Serena
Srebo returns wide

Serena fights off break point
2-1

Jackie,
Whitney moved match call here for set 2

I moved over here since the other CC has so many comments it takes awhile to refresh.

Beckham,
Great question about the Serena serve being a liability. Wish I knew the answer to that one especially when she lost serve 3 times in the first set against Gisela Dulko Tuesday night.

Beckham - well didn't we already know that Jose was not going to be with Fed for the whole dirt track tour? Shanked groundies or mishits are, it seems to me, about technique and timing. Not what I get the sense that Jose has been brought on board for.
I'm not completely sanguine either, but I'm certainly willing to give this a chance before I pull the rip chord. I thought what Todd Martin had to say was most insightful and made me feel like this had a real chance to work to Fed's benefit - and not just on clay.

I would assume Serena's serve is less of a weapon on clay as opponents may have a little more time to react, similiar to why Roddick doesn' have great results on clay.

Srebo serving 1-2
Srebo hits long 0-15
Serena wearing the same outfit she won Miami in I do believe
Srebo in lime green and white
Serena hits a FH long She's not happy about something 15-15
Dad's here
Serena at the net and explodes on a volley 15-30
Srebo hits wide 15-40
Break pt for Serena
Serena hits a passing shot that looks right on the line. wow

Serena breaks

Your comments on Borg and his "chaperon" coach could be extended to his second, abbreviated attempt at a comeback when he was "coached" by some new-age guru shrink- type instead of a tennis professional. The guru had Borg grow his hair back, dress the same, use his wood racket, and generally try to recapture a time past.

Don't forget Peter Lundgren, who worked with Federer pre-Safin and whose contributions I would guess are under-estimated.

uh oh, three BPs gone.
srebotnik might regret that soon enough...if you let serena back into a match you´re toast in 99%.
and look! there are the BPs for serena now. grrr. she breaks of course. another grrr.
katarina, you´re a tool.

CL: that's my whole thing, I feel like this has a very real chance to work for the good of the Fed, and I'm being completely territorial, and I know this, I just can't help it...I think they need to spend some meaningful time together before the Fed trusts him enough to listen to everything he has to say...dude is notoriously stubborn and is even probably more stubborn after 12 GS, and rightly so...

Serena serving 3-1
Attemped passing shot by Srebo goes wide 15-0
Cliffy just announced the Wimbledon news
DF for Serena 15-15
Drop shot.. Serena gets it back.. Srebo with a passing shot 15-30
FH winner for Srebo 15-40
Serena hits wide

Srebo breaks back 2-3

Tony Picard!! Stefan Edberg's coach. Was credited, I believe, with helping Stefan figure out that sometimes he had to dig deep and really fight even - especially- when things were not going his way and/or he was not playing his best.

Hmmm...what's Tony doing these days I wonder? He might be a trifle 'mature' but what they hey...

Beckham: Federer approached Higueras, why would he spend the time and money to do that if he didn't want to at least give him a hearing?

Did you see the forehand dropper??? It's in the link evie posted, at around 2:30.

Bismarck

I agree with you.....Srebo is a total tool!!!!!

and i´d love to see the demmy vs azarenka match... but no charleston coverage for me before saturday. meh.

don´t get broken again srebo... stop your foolishness.

Lacoste sponsoring this event so I guess that's why I'm seeing a Lacoste Andy Roddick commerical

srebo serving
missed that.. might have been a service winner 15-0
DF 15-15
Serena FH into the net 30-15
Serena returns into the net 40-15
Srebo into the net 40-30
Srebo pulled wide and hits the net - deuce

Srebo FH winner on the line Ad Srebo
Srebo into the net - deuce

crazyone: the Fed is notorious for not listening if he doesn't agree with what you have to say, Indeed, I saw the FH dropshot, not well disguised, but he attempted it, which means he needs more practise and it should be good to go...just in time for RG, no???

Poor Sousa and Gil: They have to finish their match, and the winner immediately has to face Fed.

Friday, April 18, 2008

CENTRAL start 10:00 am
[Q] J Sousa (POR) vs [WC] F Gil (POR) 67(5) 10 - To Be Finished - ATP
Not Before 11:00 AM
[5] T Garbin (ITA) vs [2] M Kirilenko (RUS) - Possible Court Change
Not Before 1:45 PM
[1] R Federer (SUI) vs [Q] J Sousa (POR) or [WC] F Gil (POR)

deuce
Serena FH winner right on the line.. Srebo says it was wide. Chair checking the mark - It's out Ad Srebo
Serena CC shot goes wide

Srebo holds 3-3

Beckham: that also means he's listening to Higueras, no? How do we know Rochey had good advice for him in the last year or so?

Serena serving
FH DTL winner for Serena 15-0
Pam saying Richard is declining an interview
Ace 30-0
Another ace - out wide 40-0
Srebo returns a FH DTL winner 40-15
Ace

Serena 4-3

crazyone,
that way the cannon fodder is at least served warm, no?

srebo held. good on her. but i it won´t be enough i fear... meanwhile demmy serving for the set. always a special experience with her...

Thanks, Master Ace. I would go with Ana or Kuzzy at this point while really reserving judgment for a few weeks. I tend to think of Dementieva as a permanent semi-finalist. I don't see Sharapova becoming the clay queen this year and I don't have an opinion on Jelena for some reason.

Beckham,

How about this scenario ... what if Robby and Roger play each other?

Crazyone: well Rochey was asleep most of the time, no??? I kid, I kid, Rochey was great with the Fed, he sured up his volleys and generally did wonders for the Fed's all around net game...Well, I don't know if it's listening to Jose, the Fed has always wanted a FH drop shot on clay, maybe Jose is finally teaching him how to do it, and thus he's listening, I'm thinking more of correcting some of his notorious bad habits...

that was me at 3:05pm...

Haha, Bismarck, for a second I thought you were referring to Higueras.

But yeah, Sousa/Gil...their match is scheduled to go on 10 am, if they go for an hour and a half (the first set was very close), it's 11:30 and the winner has to go on again at 1:45...

Not that I think it really matters anyway...

This is a wonderful post Pete and it represents one reason I check in here daily (the comments are always priceless too you guys!)... I love the history and this specific perspective (ie coaches and their impact) is something I've always found fascinating. The "supporting cast" of pro tennis makes the whole thing more colorful—from the coaches to the Moms and Dads and the other courtiers—it gives the sport a unique character. Looking forward to part II...

On a side note, I'm going to Charleston this weekend and they indicated on the telecast at lunch today that the former champions were invited back for their anniversary... sounds as if a number will be there so should be great to see them in their "advanced" states of maturity ;-)

I have a theory as to Federer's part of the "reluctance" deal. As Pete rightly points out, its takes a lot to gain a champion's trust and respect, and Roger, like all champions can be stubborn as well. But this to me does not explain Roger's story completely.

I don't remember the source, I think it was an interview, but Roger mentioned a few years back that he doesn't like to look up at his box for assurance during a match because he din't want to be dependent on that assurance lest someone is not "there" one day for him.

The more I thought about this and from watching the short biograhical-DVD ("The Roger Federer Story"), it occured to me that Roger has some history vis-a-vis his coaching situation. Roger made the decision at one point to let go of his childhood coach. Peter Carter, who mentored him through critical stages of his early development, and stick with Lundgren because he had more experience on tour. It occurred to me that when Carter died in a crash in South Africa (a trip apparently the Federers exhorted him to take), Federer may have carried with him the guilt of having abandoned Carter in favor of Lundgren.

Success followed for Roger, but I hear it was well-known in tennis circles that Lundgren had his own issues - alcohol abuse. Roger must have soon realized that for his career to blossom, he could not afford a coach to drag him down. It din't hurt that he found success going solo.

With this background, my theory is that he sort of has created a self-fulfilling prophecy in his mind that no coach will ever be "there" for him. I think his jaunt with Roche, while it may have had monetary and control issues involved, was primarily a matter of sharing the trust space between Mirka and Tony, and I don't think it was anywhere near an equal split.

It will be interesting to see now, assuming that my surmise is true, how his partnership with Higueras turns out. It may well be possible that Roger is more willing to accept and imbibe advice knowing that Jose does not seek a full-time, close-knit working relationship as does Roger himself.

Wasn't Family Circle a comic or something like that?

Srebo serving 3-4
DF 0-15
Serena hits long 15-15
Pam saying Serena is ticked
Serena returns to the net 30-15
Pam saying Serena giving Srebo a staredown on changeover
Serena FH wide 40-15
Serena BH winner near the corner 40-30
Serena FH goes long

4-4

[Syd: So who was able to extend their major winning ways past five years.]

Borg -- won at least one slam a year over 8 years.

Serena serving at 4-4
Serena FH winner in the open court 15-0
Srebo into the net 30-0
Srebo into the net after she's pulled wide by a shot from serena
Srebo returns wide

Can Serena break for the set 5-4

FYI I have to go to work at 4 but will continue match call until I have to get ready to leave.

To no name poster at 3:03 PM,
My pecking order can change but I want them to play this week, Berlin, and Rome then I will have a fair assessment for Roland Garros.

Syd,

Ivan Lendl comes to mind. He won his first major in '84 (FO) and his last in '90 (AO). But his first runner-up finish was in '81 (FO) and last in '91 (AO). Plus he had that incredible streak of 8 straight USO finals 1982-89.

Whitney,
Thanks for the match call. At least, I am getting a feel of the match because I am stuck at work today.

to answer the serena serve liability question, i think it's less about her serve itself being the problem, and more of a combination of clay neutralization, her movement leading to poor defense, and untimely errors on serve.

drop shot winner..set point Serena

Tennis the fastest growing participant sport in the country per Cliffy

Srebo serving to stay in the set
Srebo hits long 0-15
Srebo serving on the sun side
Serena hits long 15-15
Serena BH goes long 30-15
Couple of drop shots.. Serena gets a winner in the open court.. Serena almost hits the net - 30-30
BH Drop shot by Serena 30-40
Set point for serna
Nice BH passing shot by Serena for the set

It was probably those short shorts that kept Lendl from winning Wimby

Master Ace, that was me at 3:03. I don't know why my name didn't show up. And I agree, the next few weeks will tell a lot. I know some players don't like tournament after tournament, but as a fan this is a great time of year.

ad

evie, thanks for posting highlights from estoril on the other thread!
it's interesting to watch how they're attempting to adjust their footwork to clay...

Srebo and Serena tied with one set apiece
Sad I have to go to work now that this is going 3 sets

Pam talking to Srebo's coach - She says it's important that Srebo stays postive about her chances... Pam asking about gamesmenship - coach didn't hear anything.. She loves south carolina

Serena serving
Serena FH into the net 0-15
Serena put away at the net 15-15
Srebo hits wide 30-15
Srebo Drop shot.. each get a return.. Srebo finally goes for the lob but it goes long 40-15
Ace

Serena holds 1-0

Syd

"Now I'm wondering, how of modern era big time multiple major winners won majors over more than five years? Or significantly so."

I recall Ros mentioning in the thread about the career archs of the great champions that Lendl might have had the greatest level of sustained brilliance of any major player of the Open era, and to be honest, I'm pretty much inclined to agree.

Lendl made more slam finals than anyone else, going from, I think, his 1981 French final against Borg to the Australian Open final in 1991. It's something like 19 slam finals he played in. I'm thinking of him because I re-watched the 1990 U.S. Open quarterfinal he played against Sampras recently, and I was amazed at how well he was able to dig out all the tricky slice approaches Sampras would throw at him. I thought, here's Lendl at 30 scrapping shots off the Louis Armstrong pavement on a dreary NY day when most guys would have long left the tour before then. The man goes down two sets and you ask yourself, what is motivating this guy?

And that's it with Lendl, that inner motivation. On some level, Lendl never really quite needed someone in his ear, it seemed to me, to keep him going. Lendl took the next two sets but lost in the fifth, ending Lendl's run of eight straight Open finals - a match that very much echoes Sampras' loss to Federer at Wimbledon. Both were 19 at the time.

As we all know, Lendl's body eventually gave out on him and no coach or great level of mental fortitude can fix that.

Nikdom -

I wondered about Roger and Lundgren, after hearing about his alchohol abuse issues, and wondered if that might have played a role in Roger's desicion to dismiss him, because Peter obviously cared for Roger very much , and given how Roger likes for his team to be made of people close to him whom he can trust (Mirka, long time trainer, Swiss DC captain) - I wondered why he let him go, yet never hired anyone else.

No problem Master Ace - don't mind match calling when I can

Srebo serving.. talking to the chair..
missed a point but Serena error I believe 15-0
Serena BH DTL winner 15-15
DF 15-30
Serena BH into the net after she's pulled out wide 30-30
Serena tries for a BH DTL but goes long 40-30
Serena BH goes long

1-1

Syd,

You piqued my curiousity w/your question about who had won slams over more than a 5-year period. In addition to the aforementioned Sampras, Agassi, Borg & Lendel, a quick check of my handy ATP guide & I come up with this list:

Ashe, Becker, Connors, Edberg, Laver, McEnroe, Newcombe, Rosewall and Wilanders.

Oops, that should be Lendl not Lendel

Oops, that should be Lendl not Lendel

Syd,

Look over Connors' career. Started winning majors in 1974 and kept winning them through 1983, the same time that Borg, Vilas, and McEnroe were winning theirs. Also, Jimbo got to the final of Wimbledon in 1984 and may have won it if not for McEnroe having the best year of his career. Heck, Jimbo was making waves in majors all the way through his 30's; check out US Open of 1991. He was 39 I believe and I think made the semis. Jimmy was truly an ironman.

Serena serving 1-1
Serena at the net and gets a volley winner 15-0
Serena FH goes long 15-15
Srebo returns an overhead smash but it goes very long 30-15
Serena at the net.. hard volley and Srebo returns it to the net 40-15

Srebo into the net

2-1 Serena

CL,

What did Todd Martin say about Higueras and Fed?

ohhhhhhhhhh Pete

Mate, if you what you said was true about last years RG final and if only Jose told Rodge to go bonkers over his forehand ...

if only those two things happened and Rodge won the final

I wud ve been so happy ,.... I was heart broken when I saw him lose the final

you making me feel nostalgic

nikdom, interesting thoughts on Roger's coach issues.

He's certainly had drama in the coaching department, even with the Davis Cup match tied in with it.

I found some old news stories about the "Carter" cup:

--------
By Bruce Matthews
September 20, 2003

Playing for Pete

A CUP to honour the late Australian tennis player Peter Carter evolved from an idea by Wimbledon champion Roger Federer and Lleyton Hewitt.

The Peter Carter Cup will be awarded to the winner of the semi-final tie between Australia and Switzerland. Carter was Federer's coach and seemed certain to be named Swiss Davis Cup coach when he was killed in a car accident in South Africa last year.

Hewitt said he and Davis Cup captain John Fitzgerald discussed the cup idea before approaching Federer.

"Fitzy and I came up with that at the start of the year. I remember in Miami I was about to go out and practise with Roger. We had to play Sweden the next week and they (Swiss) had to play France," Hewitt said.

"I went up to Roger and asked if we both (nations) got through, would he want to play for some sort of cup in Peter's honour? Roger was over the moon.

"I always remember going over to (junior coach) Peter Smith's place and he was telling me how similar I was to Peter Carter. We were both small for our age, had blond hair and good groundstrokes.

"I knew Peter the whole time he was coaching Roger. He was a great guy, probably one of the nicest guys I've ever met. It was a sad day for Australian tennis and Swiss tennis."
--------

I remember reading that Roger was devastated about losing that 5-setter & Peter Carter's parents went to the locker room to console him after.

I wish they would quit showing Serena's fall.. It looked like it hurt. Makes me cringe everytime

Srebo serving 1-2
0-15 missed it
Serena returns long 15-15
Serena winner 15-30
Srebo FH winner 30-30
Srebo comes in on a short ball hit by Serena.. but her return is long 30-40

Serena into the net - deuce Serena lets out a groan
Serbo FH winner nice shot.. Ad Srebo
Ace

2-2

miz tangi - WAY up thread...around nooonish...someone copied an interview Todd had given re Jose and TMF. He said a lot actually...remarked that he thought Fed had looked a little unsure on court lately, but the thing that he was clearest about was that Jose is just a great student and teacher of the game and anything he brings to Fed's table will NOT just be about the clay.

(The interviee is also bouncing around rf.com somewhere as well, I'm sure.)

Sher,
That is an interesting and touching article. Forgive my ignorance but did the "Carter" cup idea fructify?

Serena serving 2-2

long ralley.. Srebo gets a FH winner right on the baseline it looked like very nice shot 0-15
Serena BH goes long 0-30
Serena comes in for a short ball and puts away a CC winner 15-30
Ace 30-30
Srebo let cord.. it goes back on her side 40-0
Srebo goes wide

Serena 3-2

I can't believe I have to leave this match 3-2 in the 3rd set...
Have to go to work though and be bored..

tangi: tt posted Todd Martin's comments on the coaching thread this afternoon.

Pete: Interesting thoughts on the coaches of some of the past greats. Will have to mull that over ...

Whitney
That was a hard fall and the way her ankle buckled is cringe inducing

Thanks, CL. :)

Whitney,
Leaving for your "day" job is tough when a good match is unfolding.

nikdom, I think it was on both of the teams minds because both Australia and Swiss team had a connection to Peter Carter, so the winner would raise the cup in his honor.

Is it time for some Serena drama? Very tiresome...

Ok bye all.. going to try to get a computer at work so I can at least watch the score. No one's going to come in for tutoring.. they never do.

ms. Tangerine:

Thanks: Ashe, Becker, Connors, Edberg, Laver, McEnroe, Newcombe, Rosewall and Wilanders

But Ashe only won 3 majors and there was a 4 year drought before he won his last in 1975. I don't consider Laver, Newcombe, and Rosewall to be of the modern era? Although I guess that is questionable. And Pete says that McEnroe only have a five year window.

I'm wondering who extended their major wins consistently! over More than five years. And that guy is Jimmy Conners.

Serena leads 4-3. Who is going to "crack" under pressure?

"That kind of confidence and peace of mind is priceless in a game designed to destroy confidence and turn even the most even-keeled player into a blithering mess, or Marat Safin."

Priceless is right, in every sense.

kwillefo
don't think we are going to get a bathroom break request and denial and then the 3 minute tantrum today

Don't count on it yello fuzzy; I wouldn't put anything past her...

" in one of those years (1982) he took the first half of the year off."

Was that in reaction to Borg's abrupt retirement?

And before it goes by the boards ...

Sampras won at least one slam for 8 straight years, too.

Serena breaks and now serves for the match leading 5-3 in set 3

Serena wins the match 4-6,6-4,6-3 as she holds her serve at love.

For Katarina, another close call against an elite player this year but she falls short again. Justine in Dubai and Serena today in Charleston.

Serena wins...maybe the Williams worshipers will move on now.

yello fuzzy,

Do you think Serena will be ok in the QF? Was the fall that bad? I didn't see the match. I'm worried.

Serena Wins!! Yeah! Sorry kwillefo - just a celebrate when you can :)

Great win for Serena versus a tough opponent who mixes up drops shots and pace. There are the types of players that give Serena trouble, especially on clay, so this is a great win and warmup clay match.

meant to say - just gotta celebrate when you can!

Serena definitely toughed it out today... Possibly Maria next

By the way, any news on the other Williams sister? Could she be...no, surely not!