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« Hamburg Crisis Center, Day 4 Hamburg CC Day 4, Redux »
The Condo
Posted 05/15/2008 @ 2 :41 PM

During the spring European clay-court season, much like during the fall European indoor circuit, the topic de jour invariably becomes the calendar and its flaws, which leads to a host of vaguely interrelated complaints and accusations against the Lords of Tennis. Rafael Nadal's recent outspokenness on this subject was the flashpoint this year; next year it may be the transformation of Nikolay Davydenko's arm into Jell-o. But there are so many fallacies and fingers pointed in the wrong direction on this issue that it might be a good time to take an overview of how and why we have such a crazy calendar.

Kolya First, let me say that I don't think the calendar is the root of the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in general the lack of jobs is is a much bigger problem for the work force at large than an over-abundance of them. Personally, I'd rather be turning down work than wishing more of it were available.

The real culprit is the ATP computer rankings. What???? 

Yep. Think about it for a moment. Why is Rafael Nadal's schedule at this time of year so seemingly overloaded? The answer is simple: he feels he must make hay while the sun shines (on clay) in order to maintain his position in the rankings. So let me suggest that we get rid of the basically dehumanizing chase for points and numerical rankings (the system that justifies having different grades of tournaments and, hence, back-to-back Masters events). Then the players will play where they want, when they want, on the surface the most like. The debate over who is the best player in the world will continue, because it's natural and it has always existed. The only thing that will vanish is our feeling that we've quantified the terms and come up with an annual world champ in a "fair" or "objective" way. Is that payoff really worth the cost?

Or think of it this way: over the past few decades, players have gone from too few opportunities to play to too many demands that they play and all of it has been part and parcel of the exploding international growth of the game. Is that such a bad thing?

Furthermore, you could probably make the case that tennis players are less like NFL football players than modern dancers. Their matches - just think of The Mighty Fed - are taken by many as performances. In no other sport is the demonstration of skill, preferably in a really eye-pleasing package of grace, technique and charisma, so highly valued. Baseball fans don't obsess about how a shortstop backhands a grounder and throws to first with anything like the same degree of intensity that tennis fans rhapsodize about Rafael Nadal's atomic forehand, or Andy Roddick's serve.

I don't believe that dancers (or other, less athletic performers, like film stars) take the stage any more often than they want, or feel they can while still being at their best. Why should tennis players be different; why do we need to rank players, anyway? Why not just agree on one tournament as an annual World Championship (hey, how about Sopot?) and call it good? Isn't a Federer-Nadal match "worth" roughly the same, in the ways that really count (our viewing pleasure, their demonstration of skill), if they're, say,  No. 5 and No. 7 in the world? Or unranked, and keeping their powder dry for the annual World Championship at Sopot?

And this: Who ranks Julia Roberts or (insert name of favorite dancer, it's not my area of expertise), or tells her that she has to make 15 or 11 or 4 films a year, the way Jet Boy and TMF are told they must play X-number of events in order to meet their obligations and earn their rankings? There are numerous other models out there besides the present one (let's call it the Cumulative Annual Points Race) through which we could have a "tennis industry" that allows the best players to strut their stuff in big tournaments, and in a way that takes into much greater consideration the special needs of the players who compete most frequently and successfully.

Many of you are anything from uncomfortable to outraged reading these speculations. I make them partly to underscore my feeling that we actually like and prefer the way things are, even though we see ways they could be made better. But that raises an interesting question - better for whom? It struck me as odd that in all the debate about the "insane" calendar, nobody seemed to point out that the vast majority of ATP and WTA players are more than happy with a crowded calendar.

What you have, really, is a few stars complaining about the calendar, and their complaints are an outcry of self -interest. Even that is by no means a burden felt or experienced the same way by the handful of players at the top. Why doesn't Andy Roddick complain about the clay-court calendar, because he's a good ATP citizen? The answer is obvious: that part of the year is not of overwhelming importance to him, nor does he plan or need to do well during it. Why does Nadal complain? One way to answer that is: because he doesn't win quite enough matches during the rest of the year to relieve himself of the need to accumulate ranking points in that concentrated spring period. And why does he need to do that?  Rankings. In effect, Nadal is complaining that he has too many chances to sustain and improve his ranking because of a crowded spring calendar. I'd say that's not the worst problem to have.

And beyond that, we have the overarching question: what would happen if the Lords of Tennis suddenly decided to scale back the tour to the Four Grand Slams and eight one-week Masters-grade events? It might make Nadal and TMF and Roddick happy, but the ATP Tour is not a Champion's Club; it's (theoretically) a joint venture between (all) the players, the tournament promoters, and the Grand Slam nations (along with a few tag-along special interests). I have a funny feeling that Richard Gasquet or James Blake (never mind Robby Ginepri, Fernando Verdasco, or Steve Darcis) wouldn't be all that happy if suddenly they were looking at a month in which they earned just first-round loser's money at the only two tournaments on the calendar.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the gender divide, the WTA woman have shown that despite all of their commitment forms and declaration, you can figure out ways to get your schedule down to a comfortable number of events. Heck, you wonder if half of the Top 10 women have even swung a racquet for the past few months. Tennis players don't enjoy and shouldn't be encouraged or forced to lie, but they've always had the last-strike option in the form of withdrawal due to illness or injury. I think a pro athlete can argue that intense fatigue is a form of illness and thus a good excuse to withdraw from an event - in fact, TMF and Jet Boy did that, just a few years ago after that terrific Rome final. If, say, Nadal feels he's really been stretched to the maximum and must withdraw from a Masters event, who's going to punish or censure him in any meaningful way?  The computer, that's who. Nobody else.

Granted, the tournament calendar is crowded, and it has a number of sore spots, like the late-winter/spring skein of Masters events. But let's remember a few things, starting with the fact that the present calendar was basically the brainchild of. . . the players, including the top players. Just read up on the watershed ATP "Parking Lot Revolution" of 1988 if you're unfamiliar with the situation (it is covered here). But also realize that the ATP, then or now, could no more blow up the existing order and start over than the next U.S. President will be able to blow up the Department of Commerce and start over.

Some readers here don't sufficiently understand who the stakeholders are in the game, and what is - and isn't - within their power to accomplish. So let's take a slightly different tack and look at the calendar as a grand old New York apartment house of 52 units; call it The Deuce Court. Once, it was owned by a single landlord, the International Tennis Federation, and it rented units (each of them representing a calendar week) to all those national affiliates (like the USTA) that put on tournaments. There was no real profit motive, because the modest income generated was - at least theoretically - plowed back into "the game." The building was rarely fully occupied.

At the dawn of the Open era, that building went condo. "Insiders" like the USTA, FFT, or LTA grandfathered themselves in, getting their four penthouse units at no cost. In a process that took some time and eventually involved enormous amounts of money and intrigue, including machinations on successive condo boards, the majority of the units (each unit still representing a calendar week) were bought up on the open market. The name of The Deuce Court was changed to reflect the make-up of the new condo board - it became The Grand Prix, then the ATP (WTA) Tour. Some units were sold to new owners, some sold out to neighbors who wanted to expand their units, some remained unchanged.

The important thing to remember is that once the building went condo, there was no longer any landlord. More precisely, it was owned by the tenants, or tournament promoters. The ATP and WTA eventually emerged as the superintendents of this fully occupied building, carrying out the wishes of the condo board and making sure everyone had heat and hot water.  It's critical to understand that the condo board gets input and advice from various sources, but it only has so much power. For instance, it can't really evict anyone, although it can offer to buy someone out. It can't very well offer for sale units that aren't available. And it can't arbitrarily decide to turn the 52-unit dwelling into 15 unit luxury building, because it would simply be too expensive to buy out all those whose units would disappear in the new conversion plan.

Furthermore, the owners of the units can decorate or renovate their apartments in any way they choose, and they're entitled to do things like offset their mortgage or carrying costs by renting out the space for commercial video shoots (in other words, television rights). But they also must take certain permits or pay fees for such activities, which is one of the ways the building raises the money to pay the superintendents. Of course, owners can be asked to swap units, but who wants to give up the a 12th floor unit with a view of the park and a lovingly restored library for a unit on the third floor, that needs renovation, even if there's a substantial cash incentive?

That's the overall scenario, and if you're wondering where the players fit into all this, you're on the right track. They fit in largely as guests. Whether this is a bad or good thing can be argued either way, but it's the reality. It's pretty clear that the players can't buy the building - owners, after all, have rights - and they're rights guaranteed by ironclad contracts, in transactions that have a century's worth of precedent and history. The players could theoretically build their own building, but then who would finance it, design it, and whose special needs would it serve? That of one or two top stars of the moment, or the group as a whole? Would it be economically viable, as a 12-unit building, or would they need something like, oh, 52 units to maximize their goals?

The players are guests, invited to every dinner party, lured by the promise of gift bags loaded with money and ranking points. Instead of passing a rule limiting dinner parties, maybe the solution is eliminating the gift bags. And as a last resort, the players might consider responding to the RSVP invitation by writing, "Sorry, previously engaged."

I just wonder if, given the opportunity to do that, they really would.

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Comments

first

Whew--haven't even read the whole post yet. But without rankings, how do you seed tournaments? I'm sure Rafa and Roger would not be pleased if they were meeting in the second round.

I don't think the fans or the tournament director would be pleased if Rafa and Roger were to meet in the second round, Ryan.


Ryan - they seemed to do fine with the seedings before the computer, although I'll be the first to admit they weren't always as accurate. On the other hand, how about Roddick's computer seeding of four or five at, say, Monte Carlo? Besides, one part of my post that really is meant seriously is that there's something ghastly and - to use the word again - dehumanizing - about this obsession with points (I've got 23,456, you've only got 23,345! I'm No. 1, the computer says so!). Sheesh. Let's sit under the shade tree once in a while and watch a couple of guys play a game of tennis just for the sheer freakin' fun of it.

Pete: Nothing to add, but I think this post is reality nailed.

Pete: you're unhappy with quantitative measures in what you (I think) see as a non-quantitative sport?

I think I need to lie down for a while.

As far as organizing seedings, ranking points come across a little like democracy: the least bad of all the options. It's not just about seeding, it's about tournament qualification. I think Dunlop Maxply wrote eloquently on this some time back, so I'll defer to him.

Additionally, the current set up does yield some very interesting information over time see my "Elite" posts last year. It isn't by any means the whole of the color palette, but having useful numbers is worth a couple of colors.

Also, in the grand scheme of things, the players are temporary residents. The sport, and tournaments, have histories measured in the tens of years and even half centuries or more. Players' careers may span a bit over a decade. They're the centre of attraction, but like a theater, they're only part of the total production.

Quite an elaborate metaphor, Pete, and you're one of the few who have been around since the "building" "went condo" and have some perspective on what it would be like otherwise.
However, I'm not sure eliminating ranking points would be an impovement; just look at the controversies in situations like college football, where the Bowl Championship Series still hasn't solved the problem of not having a single agreed-upon system of rankings.
As a teacher, I find that more and more in this "helicopter parent" and litigious society, I need an ironclad numerical system of computing my grades that I can show to justify why I "gave" a student a certain grade. The seat-of-the-pants estimates that a lot of teachers used when I started teaching back in the day would certainly not pass muster nowadays.

pete, you still haven't answered the IW/Miami scheduling complaint. If they own units 12 and 13, how were they able to move to units 14 and 15 for just one year? did the owners of 14 and 15 leased those units to them?

Sorry, I hit the "post" button too soon. I meant to add the following:
...and I think today's players would be less willing to accept "seat-of-the pants" methods of seedings than they were back in the days before computerized rankings. Even Wimbledon has had to come up with a numerical formula to justify giving players higher seedings based on their grass-court results, and clay-court players did threaten to boycott Wimbledon to force the change to 32 seeds.

I think seeding Roddick lower on clay (or seeding, oh, Coria lower on grass) only makes things worse--it discourages those players from participating in tournaments on their worst surfaces. Roddick busts his arse the rest of the year, let him reap the benefits of the seeding. Remember the Wimbledon boycott fiasco a few years ago?

I should have added tourney quals to the seeding problem.

Sleeping pill, thanks! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

The short answer, Abbey, is that the condo board approved the move down the hall, even if it is on a temporary basis.

Keep in mind Ryan, that I'm throwing this out there as a starting point for discussion, not a cut-and-dried solution. Sometimes it's good to ask, "what really is the nature of the problem here?" before we come up with a fix. Just an attempt to look at an overexposed but conventionally viewed problem from a different perspective.

I agree. Let players compete for prize money and Grand Slams. Seeds are left to the individual tournaments - let them decided on recent win-loss records, past performance in the tournament or surface - it will be in the interest of the tournament organizers to keep the best players in the draw such that they can go the farthest.

These year end number 1 rankings also don't make much sense; Is it not enough for a player to be able to say 'Hey I won this Slam event or had this many Ws vs Losses'. In any case, there are virtual number 1's now for different surfaces or different times of the year so who really cares if a player was no.1 on Dec 31?

Pete, again a great job distilling the essence of the calendar issue!

I'm not completely buying the metaphor here, although Pete knows his tennis history and machinations better han I.

The trouble with not wanting to point to the schedule and the player contractuals as a problem is that it skrts the issue and ascribes it to something even further from the players' control.

Imagine an NFL Commissioner gone wild. He decides that hey, if we can fill the stadiums and get great TV ratings and revenues 16 to 17 weeks out of the year, imagine how rich we'd all become if we extended it to 30 weeks? We could either add more teams, which might dilute the talent pool, or just have the current teams play each other 3 times. The players would love it, right? After all, it's more work for them. Less downtime, less time to get into trouble. Of coure, with all that extra revenue, we'd be able to offer larger contracts and bonuses. What a great idea! Why didn't I think of it sooner?!

WHat's that you say?... "What about injuries?" Well, what about 'em! I figure with these players getting these huge contracts they'll all have personal trainers and they'll all be eating right and staying healthy. I mean, why wouldn't they with all that money to be had? Besides, it's not like they play every minute of every 60-minute game......

No. The schedule is rotten, and the contractual obligations are not designed with the player's health interests in mind. Fix the damn schedule, build in a real off-season of 10 to 15 weeks, and you'll see an improved product.

Slice-n-Dice, the truth is, apart from us tennis enthusiasts, general sports audiences do not care about anything other than the Grand Slams. Which is why it makes sense that the Grand Slams will see the most deep fields competing. The rest of the time, the best players will gravitate towards the tournaments that have the biggest purses. At that point, its upto the players to forgo the chance at making an extra buck (or million) if they feel they need to take a break.
The Grand Slams will still be set apart enough on the calendar and will still retain their prestige.

Oh Pete, I understand and appreciate that. I just can't help but play devil's advocate.

How do the players feel about the ranking system currently? They don't seem to view the ranking/schedule connection the way you do (that's not an indictment on your thoughts here). At least, they don't seem to make that known publicly.

Pete, Ryan, Andrew, et al - My first reaction, before reading the entire post, was that all this made sense, but how the heck do you seed tournaments? If this is just meant as a starting point to a discussion, then maybe we could all imagine what a tweaked rankings plan might look like. Here's a starting point for THAT discussion: just count the slams - everybody wants to play and each surface is represented once. (And again, this is just a starting point - I've given this about as much thought as it took to write this comment...)

Interesting post. I think great players win no matter where they are in the seeding or draw...like Serena at 2007 AO or Ivanisevic at Wimbledon in 2001. Besides, greatness is measured by wins...wins in great matches and wins at the big tournaments.

The big tournaments seem to be determined by tradition, but new ones can gain prestige and interest by amount of prize money. But then again, pursuit of prize money can be as empty as ranking points.

It's worth remembering that the ATP mandatory schedule (for those who qualify) is the 4 GSs + 9 MS. Then the ATP allows all players to count 5 more results toward their rankings. IMO, it really is the players' (especially at the top) concerns about their rankings at the heart of the schedule issue. The mandatory schedule is 17 weeks, IF a player is making it to the 2nd week of the Slams. And you can play 5 more weeks (or more) if you want to. Players play more than the mandatory sked for their own purposes. All of these other tourneys are necessary for the non-top pros to make a living, but nobody has to play them.

Having said all that, a real off-season would still be a good thing, IMO.

Rolo, I suggested a couple of posts earlier that tournaments can devise their own strategies for seeding, (sort of like Wimbledon does now anyway). The base can be set with half of the seeds going by W-L records that are most recent so in-form players are given the best opportunity to present their case. This can be offset by seeding the rest of the seeds with different criteria such as performance on the surface, grand slams etc.

why not separate the points calendar into four different "mini-seasons" and seed players accordingly. if roddick doesn't like to stay in europe for two months it will only affect him during that time of the year. nikolay on grass? problem solved.

you could still have a year ending championships by combining the mini-seasons but you wouldn't have the adverse effects of constantly trying to catch up to a 52 week schedule that affects you year round if you 'only' concentrate on a smaller scale.

i think it would even help the average fan pay more attention to tennis instead of trying to decipher what 'matters' from what 'doesn't'. we already have a de-facto clay season and 'us open series' so why not create rankings that reflect that?

Nikdom - I just worry about tournaments having too much autonomy where this is concerned - I see a ton of potential for mischief/controversy. Having said that, I gotta run, but I'll check back here later for what I'm sure will be a very long list of thoughts and comments on this post from Pete!

Well, I'm not sure if you really believe this, Pete. Or you're just being provocative. Heavens forbid. (!)

The Players are not dinner guests they are also important stakeholders—no matter if it's only a 10-year investment: And to follow your metaphor, the players are the works of the building; they're the furnace and the air conditioning; the electricity and the sanitation. Not to mention the furniture and decoration for each of these units.

Without them, these properties wouldn't sell for very much.

Final thought - let's just use the points from the US Open Series! (kidding)

Now that's what I mean Rolo; the tournaments were seeding players, and pretty accurately, since long before the computer. Frankly, I think it's a non-starter as an issue and the degree to which we can't imagine seeding without the computer is a telling measure of our reliance on it.

I agree that more opportunities to play are better for the greatest number of players and understand the problems with simply changing the schedule.

I think players have a right to protect their earning potential - most threatened by health issues at whatever level. This is most directly affected by manditory events and ranking points. That can be solved by limiting rankings to a specific number of tournaments and use best results including Grand Slams and Masters and others.

I think it should be the responsibility of the players to determine their schedule taking into consideration money, ranking points and specific health issues. I do have problems with the idea of manditory events twined with a condensed schedules.

The idea of a crowded schedule should also be viewed over the course of a year rather than surface specific or a particular one or two months. It seems like only counting home matches versus home and away matches when looking at total ranking points.

Pete,

By your logic, if we shouldn't be so hung up about rankings/seedings...then why score a tennis match at all..why can't we watch 2 people play tennis without having to keep score????

Well, to take the post as a jumping off point, I'm far from convinced that any player, either Nadal in the clay season, or the hard court players who spend a good eight or so weeks on concrete in the middle of the North American summer, or whomever it is that is jammed up due to the annual Wimbledon rain, has that much of a complaint.

In the past thirty years, the ATP tour has evolved from almmost a total free for all to a system based upon some sound logic - the "tour" for the top players will be the four GS tournaments, about 8 Masters series events or whatever, the option of playing however many lower events the player wishes to play.

Its easy to forget that the only way the Masters Series events became the Masters series was through a system of mandatory player commitment. Even with mandatory commitment, and ranking points deduction for failure to play, top players still skip these tournaments. Once the mandatory commitment was in place, the sponsorship dollars followed.

All that said, the condo analysis is valid. It will take, not one year, but a decade or so before appropriate spacing is arrived at. But it will happen someday, because the reality is that its only the Australian Open which needs to be moved more than a week or so from its current spot. IW and Miami would then be Masters Series tune ups for the AO.

Wimbledon and the FO will eventually separate by another couple of weeks, and we can have our four seasons.

Sorry though Pete, as brilliant as the condo analogy was, the broadside at rankings points still misses the mark.

Or,

how about solving it the following way.

Awarding the grand slam tournaments 3 to 4 times the points that are awarded right now.

That way Rafael Nadal would not "need" to be playing all these smaller tournaments (same for all top players like Sampras, etc..). The Williams sisters already do this and yet continue to win slams despite "not being #1".

But the powers that be do not want to see the top players concentrate only on grand slam tourneys.

What you suggest as a "world championship" was already in place in the 40s 50s 60s when only five tournaments counted towards crowning the world champion, the rest were (and still are) there as tune-ups.

I definitely agree that the ranking system is flawed; the most recent example is 2003 when AR was "year end #1" (what the heck does that mean anyway), by a few very marginal points over RF.
Yet RF won the head to head 2-1, with two blowouts and Andy's victory came in a 3rd set tie-break.

Hardly seems to me AR was the "best player in the world" that year.


i think tennis is far too much of an international sport to really consider 'mini-seasons' as some sort of 'home vs. away' mentality. fed's success in hamburg? mary pierce being of the world? there would definitely be kinks but i think that given the surface disparity it would make the most sense. just a thought though, i guess.

but it's worth noting that it would give a lot of attention to the fact that tennis does have these surface changes and allow a greater context for them.

Here's another perspective on the seeding issue. To me there are but 3 aspects that really make up the essence of seeding-
1. The desire of the players to avoid a lop-sided run to the finals and that of the organizers to let the best float to the top.
2. The money involved by advancing every round
3. The ranking points gained from such an advance

Point no.3 is a chicken-and-egg problem and you can discard that in the no-ranking world. Number 2 is no longer be as much of an issue at the GS events if players have more than ample opportunity to make hay on their favorite surface/tournament/venue/least-competitive-tournament: at least in so far as a player saying, 'Hey, I would have advanced another round had I not been seeded such that I had to play player X, who is my nemesis'. Remember, after all, the seeding system right now is not perfect that way either. Lastly, point no. 1, that of spreading the best around the draw is easily achieved by using W-L records etc like I suggested before.

Interesting read, but my first reaction to the proposed rank-less tour was "WTF?" I, too, loathe number hierarchies, but--like Ryan, in fact--I can't see how tournaments would handle the seeds without a coherent ranking system.

Rafa ought to be grateful for the overcrowded schedule. Laver and Co. would have relished a more crowded schedule, and Rafito ought to put a break on the whining. The lower-ranked dudes (those with home mortgages to pay) don't have to suffer because Rafa wants to spend more time with his mama in Mallorca.

I just can't quit this post today - but I really do need to go do some stuff...

Pete - I hear you, but I also feel like the computer is pretty darn accurate. And wasn't there an element of lawlessness across the sport in the pre-computer days that would have diluted any perceived unfairness on the part of the players - I can just see player after player upset about their seeding if the computer rankings were shelved today - it even happens occasionally at Wimbledon, and they have a formula!

To the extent I was not clear, I have to add that it would be nice to simply wrap this all up in a bow, but because of the structue of the game so well described above, it will not happen.

It will happen something like this. The next German power player will come along in ten or so years, and then, soon after, we will have "ATP Masters Series Halle"

One thing about Pete Bodo that you have to admire about him, he is never the status quo.

Interesting to bring this up, but I think the year to date race points system have protected the 52-week rankings system.

By dropping the schedule by one week for the clay, yes, the ATP has messed this up this year. But Nadal didn't use any common sense in making his schedule, and knew that if he went to the finals in Rome that he would have pulled out of Hamburg just like he and Fed did two years ago, and that's on him. I know you won Barcelona 3 times in a row going in and it is indeed one of the premiere International Gold Series events, but it's an International Gold Series event, not a Masters-Series.

There is a lot of sense in this blog. However, the fact is that tournaments want to have top players and if they are injured and have to retire or not show up at all - nobody is going to be too happy. So there has to be some compromise.

Pete points out that the computer system is the only mechanism in place to "punish" players for skipping out on tournaments.

Once that's gone, that would necessarily mean no repercussions for withdrawal, which means little to no player commitment ever.

It's tough to hash out, but to me it seems that more chronological balance to the calendar would solve things more than anything else. Maybe not to the extent of having "mini-seasons," but maybe some clear delineation between AO season, FO, Wimby, USO. the "FO Series" already sorta exists, and the AO Series could too with some schedule reworking.

I think as many notable tennis minds have stated before that a commissioner is a feasible idea...

"The lower-ranked dudes (those with home mortgages to pay) don't have to suffer because Rafa wants to spend more time with his mama in Mallorca."
**********

I'm sorry, but this is inane. The desire to have many tournaments so that journeymen always have an opportunity to pay the bills in no way requires that mandatory tournaments be scheduled back-to-back.

Uncomfortable, outraged?

Speaking for myself, Pete, I think your suggestions to correct the tour rankings system are not only refreshingly different but crystal clear!

It leaves one also with the irritating feeling that the currently bizarre system of computing weekly rankings has been put to use simply because a machine can do the math in a few seconds. Never mind that a player gets his body beat up in the process!

Intuitively, 'protecting' ranking points gained from having played at an event a year ago seems ridiculous. The highest ranked player should be the one doing most of the winning at present, and not a player benefiting from a floating average. Yes, by that measure, Djokovic would be higher ranked today than Federer, but so what?! He is doing most of the winning right now; why not let him be recognized for that?

At year-end, the ATP can do a calculation based on how the player has performed over the year and bring out the annual ranking. If Federer or anyone else does better overall, he gets the mathematical nod.

Syd, tennis tournaments are like employers and tennis players like temp. employees working entirely for performance bonuses. Of course its in the interest of a tournament to attract the best and brightest so they can turn around and sell their event to sponsors and general audiences. This they can do with prize money, appearance fees and prestige. Its also in the interest of the players to attend the events that they have the best chance at, or to compete for the biggest purses. But that does not mean that either the players or the tournaments have a "right" to an opportunity - its a free market that regulates itself!

After all, if I'm a player I have no right to decide who my opponent is going to be. If my employer wants me to prove I'm the best salesman against another of his picking for a large prize in a fair setting, isn't that fair enough? This whole seeding affair is really the prerogative of the tournament. Its usually in their best interest to not favor one or the other to win a tournament.

"The lower-ranked dudes (those with home mortgages to pay) don't have to suffer because Rafa wants to spend more time with his mama in Mallorca."

Dang, Liron, you've been hanging out with MrsSanta too much. :)

Quick,

Nope--not inane at all. Rafa can always choose to skip one of those mandatory tournaments, right? That he chooses not do so is hardly, say, Steve Darcis's problem.

--Liron

The tennis world would implode.

nikdom:

Thanks and I get it.

But I'm not a subscriber to free- market, unregulated capitalism And lately, we have been repeating the rewards of that particular whirlwind.

I subscribe to the Marxist theory that if you work in the factory, you own the factory.

You know what, Ms. Rubin? I have every confidence that armed with the draw sheets of the past 12 months, YOU could make make seedings for any slam that would be acceptable to me and most fans. Hey! Consider yourself hired. We don't need no stinkin' computer!

Syd - I guess the SU went belly up because it produced too many factor owners. . . seriously, though, re. your thoughts on the players: the grail for every tournament, and the game in general, is having tournaments without "the players" - by which I mean attracting sufficient fans regardless of who is playing, simply because tennis is fun to watch and a tournament great to attend. To that end, the boycott year at Wimbledon was a stinging blow to the budding ATP. They gave a tournament and nobody came - except the spectators. That pretty much killed any idea anyone might have had about "the players" being the end all and be all. I think we're much better off with the sport not existing at the leisure of its top players.

To me, the only reason Nadal is complaining is that he feels the heat of Djokovic overtaking him in the rankings. He has a choice to defend at fewer tournaments in the spring leaving him fresher to make up his lost points with improved perfomance in the summer. He's sounding like a whiny clay court specialist to me whose comments are undeserving of the attention they're are receiving. But at least they triggered Pete's elegant explanation of the annual schedule structure. Thank you.

Look, the rankings are an entry system. Anyone can come up with a different seeding system, and certainly computers exist which could add a weighting scale in addition to basic points.

But talk about an answer in search of a problem! It obviously makes zero difference in the short term whether Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are ranked 1, 2, and 3, or 3, 2, and 1, or 2, 1, and 3. Two of the three are going to play in the semis, and which two is drawn by lot even if their current rankings stay the same.

The real question, which has been answered by the players themselves, is what benefit, aside from money, do you get by doing well in a particualr tournament. The answer is points for one year.

If it was your tournament entries on the line, you'd probably agree.

Moreover, why shouldn't a player feel pressure to defend ranking points? You only defend them by playing and winning tournament matches. Not by attempting to become an actress! Or a fashion designer!

Its 12 or so mandatory events per year. Frankly, why not just play them all in a row, back to back, so we can easily follow them.

Players in other pro sports have it far, far tougher.

Pete;

What I'm really saying is that the players are the commodity while at the same time they are important stake holders; Without them, nothing is possible—so their wants and needs have to be taken into account, and seriously. And too often, that doesn't seem to be the case. As with the Wimbledon boycott, it wasn't just the top players who boycotted the event, nor should it fall to the top players to dictate terms. Andy Roddick has called for a players' union. It's high time.

Interesting discussion - thanks for the setting the stage, Pete. A new angle is always appreciated on this topic. :)

And can I just say (since I have nothing to add to the thoughts here on this) that I love the word "moreover"?

first and foremost pete let me say that with all due respect...you are an idiot(thats being polite).
i actually had respect for you before seeing this but lets get to the point. rafa's right. the problem is with the calender not the rankings. without rankings there would be no way to measure talent and have any type of argument for GOAT. and secondly...who in their right mind would put THREE atp masters series in 4 WEEKS!!! that is pretty damn insane! its already bad enough to have rome and hamburg back to back. and besides..whats wrong about tryig to get more ranking points. the atp officials expect players to show up at all masters series so they should know that many players are going to be playing 3 out of 4 weeks. your argument makes no sense at all. the rankings are fine..its the schedule.

oh and by the way i know that my comment is probably gonna be deleted anyway since u guys are such egoistic people who arent willing to take any criticism.

[Moderator: criticism, yes. Snide insults, no.]

"without rankings there would be no way to measure talent and have any type of argument for GOAT."

I mean, you could get the players together and have them play in tournaments, and measure talent by what tournaments they've done well in, but that would be crazy.

Dunlop:

* Players in other pro sports have it far, far tougher. *

Really? Alex Rodriguez was paid $27,708,525 in 2007. Just under what Roger has made in seven years on the circuit. Of the top 20 highest paid baseball players, Miguel Tejada (Baltimore Orioles) the lowest paid in this elite group was paid $ 13,811,415 in 2007.
98 baseball players made $8 million dollars or more in 2007; Roger made, what $5 million last year and it was an all time record for a tennis player.


I'll second Tari. Great discussion. Love this stuff. So many smart people here with great insights.

And I'll have to admit, I was royally sick a while ago of hearing Nadal talk about the scheduling. :)

Pete; In the meantime I should have said that this is a fun and thought-provoking read, and thanks for always pushing the envelope.

"And I'll have to admit, I was royally sick a while ago of hearing Nadal talk about the scheduling."

I think if I had to choose between my health and my ranking, I'd go with my health, but I might complain a bit to try and keep both.

"and have any type of argument for GOAT"

We need more GOAT arguments around here.

I think that problem is only in the defending of points - because once you show up on one tournament and you make a good run there - you're stuck for the rest of your career with defending it. And every player who wants to achieve the top ranking must run a maraton of tournaments once he starts with proffesional tennis - and once you get your score it's a bigger cost to keep it with all those defending points. I don't think it's necessary to give up from points and rank system - I think it would be enough to quit with the rule of losing points if you don't achieve previous success on one tournament. It's a politic anyway which keeps players on the hook as a fish

Sam: lol.

Syd,
I absolutley agree, it is quite unfair that tennis players get so little money, it's crazy in my opinion.

So. Here is the ATP's mandatory schedule this year for those ranked highly enough to qualify for the mandatory schedule. And I'm including Davis Cup which is not mandatory, but I realize many top players (those who play the most matches per year) do participate (as they well should, IMO), so it should be recognized as part of the schedule. Same with the Olympics.

1. GS Australian Open Jan 14-27

* followed by: 11 days off IF you are 1 of 2 people playing in the Final; 126 players did NOT play in the Final; 112 didn't even make it to the 2nd week)

Davis Cup Feb 8-10 (many play, but again, it's not mandatory)

* 31 days off IF you played DC (more if you didn't play DC and have a 1st rd. bye in upcoming IW)

2. MS Indian Wells Mar 13-23

* 3 days off IF you played in the Final (doesn't account for extra days off for 1st rd. byes in the next event)

3. MS Miami Mar 27-Apr 6

* 4 days off IF you played the Final

Davis Cup QF Apr 11-13

* 7 days off (more if you didn't play DC; also not accounting for extra days off for 1st rd. byes in MC)

4. MS Monte Carlo Apr 20-27

* 7 days off IF you played the Final (not accounting for extra days off for 1st rd. byes in Rome)

5. MS Rome May 5-11

* 0 days off IF you played Final (not accounting for extra days w/ 1st rd. byes in Hamburg)

6. MS Hamburg May 11-18

* 7 days off IF you played the Final

7. GS Roland Garros May 26-Jun 8

* 14 days off IF you played Final

8. GS Wimbledon Jun 23-Jul 6

* 14 days off IF you played Final (not accounting for extra days off for 1st rd. byes in Canada)

9. MS Toronto Jul 21-27

* 0 days off IF you played Final (not acct'ing for extra days off for 1st rd. byes in Cincy)

10. MS Cincinnati Jul 28-Aug 3

* 6 days off IF you played the Final

Olympic Games Aug 10-17

* 7 days off IF you played the Final

11. GS US Open Aug 25-Sept 7

* 11 days off IF you played the Final

Davis Cup SF Sept 19-21

* 21 days off (more if you have a 1st rd. bye in Madrid)

12. MS Madrid Oct 13-19

* 7 days off (more if 1st rd. bye in Paris)

13. MS Paris Oct 27-Nov 2

* 6 days off IF you played Final and you qualify for TMC

Masters Cup Nov 9-16 (not mandatory, but also an opportunity for only 8 players to pick up extra points)

* 4 days off IF you played TMC Final and you're still in DC

Davis Cup Final Nov 21-23

* essentially 2 months off until next mandatory event: AO
______

Personally, I feel that having a full week off between mandatory events is reasonable. And most of the time, even with the back-to-backs, most of the players do get a week off. So, the schedule that is mandated by the ATP is reasonable except in 3 cases: IW/Miami; Rome/Hamburg; Canada/Cincy. The days off I noted through the mandatory schedule above are minimums or 'worst case scenarios' -- IF a player is always playing Finals. And it's quite strange that we currently have 2 players who can realistically expect to make finals almost every time they play. This is so rare and I don't think the schedule was conceived with such players in mind (not even sure it should be, but that's another topic). Still, the back-to-back Masters thing can be considered unreasonable for everyone, and should be rectified, IMO. Beyond mandatory events, any and all other events a player participates in are *TOTALLY* at their individual discretion. The schedule has remained largely the same for years -- there aren't really any huge surprises. Players know what to expect and outside of the mandatory events, they have options.

If the 3 back-to-back MS situations were changed, I think both the schedule and the rankings system are fine.

Syd, I'm not sure what the money figures have to do with which sport has it "tougher". Baseball brings in a ton more dough that tennis. Just a fact of life. They also have a regular season of playing almost every day for six months. Ask your average baseball pitcher about the risk of injury.

syd: "Of the top 20 highest paid baseball players, Miguel Tejada (Baltimore Orioles) the lowest paid in this elite group was paid $ 13,811,415 in 2007."

Baseball is overrated and that kind of payment just shows us how sad this world really is. One person do not need so much money while there are people who are starving. What does the world really have from baseball - nothing except of a fun for some people - than why invest so much money in that - more money than any man actually need.

Nicely done Pete - very interesting kickoff! with all the debate about the calendar - I was waiting for someone to mention that the bulk of the tour NEEDS a packed schedule.

As for the ranking points pfft - I think I heard Andrew hitting the floor back here in Beantown!

the rudh: "oh and by the way i know that my comment is probably gonna be deleted anyway since u guys are such egoistic people who arent willing to take any criticism."

Calling someone an "idiot" is not a critic - even monkey could make such kind of critic. Sorry - is it a critic if I call you a monkey or is it just no-brain-needed insult?

Sherlock: True. But a pitcher doesn't usually play for more than a few innings. Am I right?

D-Whiz: Thanks for posting that. But what about the necessity of squeezing in warm up events for some of the mandatory ones? A "fact of life" to borrow a phrase.

Um, but Maja, what does the world have from tennis? Or any sport? I don't disagree with you, but that's a separate issue.

Also Sherlock: It was Roddick who said, paraphrasing; what other pro athlete has to play 11 months of the year?

Sherlock, tennis is also just for fun so but this sport is so phisically hard that I don't think anyone would play it proffesionaly if there was no enough money satisfaction. I can't be objective about tennis (on that subject) because I love it to much and it's almost the only sport I like to watch. So I kind of "forgive" them for wasting a money on that :D altought I don't think players didn't deserve it because they are really putting unbelievable effort. It's just that, when someone tells that it's not enough of money for them, I get those poor feeling for people who would kill for a 1/10 of that money just to FEED their family, nothing more.

Syd: Frankly, I think 'warming up' is the players' responsibility. The tour and tournaments and sponsors are providing the players with the opportunities to earn money and ranking points. They need to take care of some things for themselves. Rest or tune up? I think the players can sort this out for themselves without expecting someone else to manage this for them. JMO

"But a pitcher doesn't usually play for more than a few innings"

Of course. And their elbow or rotator cuff could explode at any moment, ending their career. I'm missing your point.

I guess I'd like to hear your reasons for why tennis players have it "tougher"?

love the condo metaphor. it sums up perfectly the dynamics involved --- it's the bottom line, 'tupid! :)

"It was Roddick who said, paraphrasing; what other pro athlete has to play 11 months of the year?"

How many of those days are they actually playing a match?

I don't see any point in removing the rankings. It's a human thing to do, to put everything into ranks. You don't have "official" ranks with other art forms or things, but people rank everything nontheless. People rank movies, restaurants, desserts, singers, actors, do I need to continue? Gosh go to youtube and search for your favourite pop singer, you will surely find tons of videos such as "Whitney vs. Mariah" "Beyonce vs. Christina". People feel the need to do that. And as sports are most clearly about competition, official rankings are a part of the entertainment. We all would rank players ourselves all day if the rankings were removed, I think it's better we have an official system. =D I don't see the ranking as somekind of a bad thing, to me it's just an interesting statistic among other statistics, I don't think players are ranked as human beings, who is better than who, as some seem to think. It's just tennis.
Then of course, the rankings serve the purpose of deciding the seedings as well, so it's important.
Really, what would change if the calendar stays the same, but the rankings are removed? Top players become less selfish and don't think about rankings so much that they are ready to kill their bodies by playing too many tournaments? Really, if they are that stupid and egoistical to begin with, let them wreck themselves.
Rankings need to stay, and the less rich players need to have the option to play a lot, so I think a simple solution would be to reward even more points in the Slams and other bigger tournaments.

Good night or good day to all :D - it's 0:58h in my town aswell as it is in Hamburg so I'm going to sleep - see ya all tommorow for another day of a great tennis events.

Sherlock: I didn't say that they have it "tougher" I was responding to Dunlop's assertion that other pro athletes have it "tougher" than tennis players.

The baseball season is five months—April to the end of October; Football, four months; do not know about basketball.

The point of how many days individuals are they actually playing a match is applicable to the other sports. But tennis players really have to stay in form for 11 months—they only real "let down" as they say in equine circles, is for those not playing in the year end Masters Cups. Essentially it boils down to about a month before they have to start training hard again and play the warm up for Oz.

sorry for the garbled typing!

Baseball is overrated and that kind of payment just shows us how sad this world really is. One person do not need so much money while there are people who are starving. What does the world really have from baseball - nothing except of a fun for some people - than why invest so much money in that - more money than any man actually need.

Baseball players making too much money shows us how sad the world really is....
how about 100,000 other things that show us how sad the world is, that don't bring ANY pleasure in the world.
Athletes work very hard for the money they make, they can't take extended vacations without loosing their edge. They can't award themselves golden parachutes or hob-knob on golf courses leisurely, or take jobs away from others to insure their profit margins.
I don't like the extreme amounts that athletes make, but they have to keep in great shape to get that big money. The best athletes work very hard .
another thing about sports is that it is a rare moment in modern life where we see crowds of people from different ethnic,economic , and social classes, enjoying being with each other and coming together for the common joys of their team or players
successes. I am not sure this occurs anywhere else in the modern world. To me this is totally invaluable. When I see the staid, uptight, so called snobs of Wimby going crazy for a young girl from the ghettos of California, or seeing Lubey and Novak exchange shirts in a political show of solidarity there is nothing more necessary and beautiful than these moments. In a world in constant battles between religious, nationalistic and ethnic groups, the joy that the viewers and fans share(together) for these' overpaid athletes' is more than worth the money.It's unfortunate there is very little staying power , after the games are over, people tend to go back to their comfort zones, but every little bit helps

"Then of course, the rankings serve the purpose of deciding the seedings as well, so it's important."

I disagree with this, because seeding can be done without a ranking system.

"Really, what would change if the calendar stays the same, but the rankings are removed? Top players become less selfish and don't think about rankings so much that they are ready to kill their bodies by playing too many tournaments? Really, if they are that stupid and egoistical to begin with, let them wreck themselves."

But I agree with this. I mean, I wouldn't call any of the players stupid, but if caring about your ranking is killing you, it might be time to adjust your priorities.

Fuzzy:

** there is nothing more necessary and beautiful than these moments...**

Well said.

OT but...

> I guess I'd like to hear your reasons for why tennis players have it "tougher"?

Well, "tough" is of course subjective. But consider:
1) Tennis players have to fly all over the world pretty much every week.
2) There is a one-month "off season." (Of course, top players can schedule in more down time because they can afford it.)
3) If a tennis player must take time off for any reason, they don't get paid. Any team sport is contractual and the members get paid no matter what.

Syd, I don't totally disagree with you on a lot of this. I think all pro sports seasons are too long. But I do agree with Dunlop on the tougher question.

Baseball is actually six months, not counting playoffs. Basketball lasts an eternity.

They play 82 games in the basketball regular reason. I can't remember how many matches Roger or Rafa played last year. Same ballpark, I think. Someone would have to convince me that Roger or Rafa is working harder in a match than Kobe is during a game. Not to mention that he is getting banged around by some big boys.

Don't get me wrong. I love our sport, and think tennis players are some of the best athletes around. It's a long haul, for sure. But there's a lot of days off throughout the season too.

yello fuzzy and maja

i am with yello fuzzy on this one. if all frivolous things were to be judged, sports for me would be the least evil of them all. so they get paid insanely large amounts of dough to play ball. but the sheer beauty of watching them do it and the realisation of the Hard Work athletes put into their craft... for me, this makes up for the ridiculous paychecks.

just please don't show athletes hitting the headlines for doing drugs, raping powerless clerks, or slapping hotel bellboys because that would be just plain ugly.

"there's a lot of days"?

Ugh. Grammar amnesty please. There ARE.

Syd
Aww shucks

grant

i agree with you 200% in your 19.07 post. completely. which is why i was sad rafa beat potito and andy. i wanted him to lose each time. same for tomorrow, i hope moya wins. but hamburg and i don't get along, it seems. *rueful smile*

Sherlock: I don't think that team sports vs individual sports are comparable anyway; If Rafa get's sore feet, there's not Rafa2 on his team to come in and take over play.

i LOVE watching football fans yell and chant and dance during high-tension matches. it does wrench the heart a bit to watch the fans of the losing side looking terribly gutted...

i remember my team losing to france in the 2006 world cup quarterfinals... and though the ocean was a few metres away, i couldn't enjoy the moment any more! and if i cried over a loss, people on the street would wonder what the hail was wrong with me. le sigh.

Whether or not rankings are good for the players or not, they are appealing to the fans (some at least). And if there are no fans, the condo building is going to go to depreciate in value pretty fast.

Back to calculating possible ranking point outcomes post Hamburg now...

syd

oh, but there is. his nickname's nole. :)

Syd,

If the point is that American baseball players make the most money, or almost the most money, or certainly make more money than tennis players do, well, there is not much debate there.

The debate here, though, while a bit more of a dorm room stoner rumination than a true debate, seems to be something like "Discuss -- the current ATP entry ranking system, when juxtaposed with the tournament schedule of certain mandatory events, results in some diminished level of either freedom or health, and, of course, good luck with easily changing the schedule."

If Federer and Nadal end up playing something like 90 matches a year, for starters not all 90 matches can be classified as difficult. Many, perhaps as many as half, are over in close to an hour. The ones which take longer, now mostly taking place in Grand Slam 3/5, are appropriately spaced both throughout the year and, with scheduled days off, at the tournament itself.

As an example of a sport with is far tougher, try professional soccer, with at 10 month season, or, if you are on international duty for your country, occasional 12 month seasons, and a sport where the injury rate far exceeds tennis and players require mandatory rest days to even be able to play.

Or, pehaps American Football, a sport condensed into about 20 weeks, including the pre-season, where there are no options concerning whether or not to play, and for some positions the injury rate is so high as to limit the longest career to about five years.

One could go on, but please do not next bring up professional golf as a comparison. Might as well bring up investment banking.

My point is, that for the vast majority of all ATP and WTA players, too many matches per year is not even a consideration.

AND for the very top players, the number of matches played includes many very easy matches.

One would think, from this post, that playing 12 to 15 tournaments a year was difficult in and of itself, when the reality is that it is not.

Now, playing tennis at a high level for even one match is very difficult, but that is not todays gabfest.

...and, I just fundamentally disagree that players in other disciplines have it a lot "tougher."

Whether or not rankings are good for the players, they are appealing to the fans (some at least). And if there are no fans, the condo building is going to depreciate in value pretty fast.

Back to calculating possible ranking point outcomes post Hamburg now...

Grant, you are correct. But you'd think it's a tiny bit more accurate with the rankings. =)

And I didn't mean to call anyone stupid. lol

svelterogue
I think Chris Rock the comedian said it best( not and exact quote)
There are 100 reasons why you would want to slap a bellboy, but you're not supposed to!

"If Rafa get's sore feet, there's not Rafa2 on his team to come in and take over play."

Until the Raelians get that clone grown, of course.

Hi Pete - enjoyed your take on the schedule. Very interesting metaphor and obviously, well thought out...

As I'm new, can you just confirm one thing and this has nothing to do with your article but is Jetboy Rafa and if so, why?

Hi Pete - enjoyed your take on the schedule - very interesting and detailed metaphor.

As I'm new, can you just confirm one thing and this has nothing to do with your article but is Jetboy Rafa and if so, why?

Cheers

Dunlop:

** The debate here, though, while a bit more of a dorm room stoner rumination than a true debate...**

Ah, the fond memories come flooding back... But I take your point and I cease and desist.

cheers,
S.

i honestly think footballers and rugby players really have it tough relative to tennis players...

by football i meant playing ball with your feet and not NFL. the constant changing of teams from defense to offense and all the time stoppages and timeouts give the players enough rest during a game, methinks.

"One could go on, but please do not next bring up professional golf as a comparison. Might as well bring up investment banking."

Yeah, you can compare apples and oranges, but comparing apples and bananas would be ridiculous!

svelte - the difficulty in American football has less to do with fatigue and more to do with the constant danger of ending up in a wheelchair :(

The ATP could theoretically change the ranking system slightly to both ensure significance of the rankings and also "place the blame," to put it ineloquently, on the schedule.

If the ATP regulated seeding in tournaments, forcing all brackets into the typical 1v16, 2v15, 3v14 round of 16, and then 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 quarters, 1v4, 2v3 semis, rankings would truly reward players via seedings. Right now, Ferrer, Roddick, Nalbandian, or Blake could draw Federer (or Nadal) in the quarters of the French. This unfairly rewards, say, Blake, who could luck out and get Davydenko in the quarters. As long as the seedings are the bizarre mishmash they are now, the only players rewarded are pretty much the top 4. Being ranked 5-8 is essentially irrelevant, except for in minor tournaments when not all top players play (and I bet Ferrer would be more excited about consistently avoiding Roger in the quarters than getting that 1 seed at Umag), and being ranked 9-16 is even less relevant.

If Blake sticks around at number 8 and Roger continues to thump him in the quarters, well, that's incentive for Blake to play better (and perhaps more tournaments). A drawback would certainly be repetitive matchups, but you could look at that differently and contend it creates rivalries (as long as they aren't too one-sided). Spacing out the schedule better, combined with this seeding system, would provide more clarity and continuity to the tour.

Except, uh, when it wouldn't...

Fans have little insight into how much work it takes off the field to maintain that competitive edge, all sports included. A gymnast competes far less than a soccer player, but the training is not less intense, gymnastics is high risk , like figure skating.
the 3 minutes of endurance for one event may seem short and insignificant compared to a 5 hour claycourt battle, but the training and the preparation make up for it.

"svelte - the difficulty in American football has less to do with fatigue and more to do with the constant danger of ending up in a wheelchair :("

Thank you! I am genuinely surprised at how much American football is dissed as a wussy sport!

Or