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The Stages of Great
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02/26/2009 - 12:46 AM
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Posted by Corrie |
02/27/2009 at 12:51 AM |
Fed not a nationalist? Well, maybe not an ultra nationalist like Hewitt etc but he sure seemed thrilled at winning gold for Switzerland and absolutely devastated when he lost the tie against Australia in 2003, after being up 2 sets and 5-3 against Hewitt. Of course, that tie was also in honour of his dead coach, just to make it worse.
I think he really wanted to play this tie against US but he was persuaded that focussing on rehab and strengthening - for what seems to be a dodgy back - and training was absolutely the priority if he was going to be totally fit for the rigours ahead. As I mentioned earlier, he said he's never going to play again as he did last year, less than 100% fit.
And the chances of being able to win a DC for Switz. without a strong back up crew ( and I don't think Wawrinka is good enough on fast surfaces) are slim.
Unlike in other lucky countries Fed has to play all 3 rubbers, 3 days in a row, which is tough at his age, as his trainer pointed out. |
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Posted by jbradhunter |
02/27/2009 at 01:43 AM |
Shmuggling. Nice word Andrew
I actually thought Blake had a better chance of beating Fed than RAndy, mostly based on Blake's Olympic performance and the way he's been able to bring his best tennis out in the events he's wearing the red,white & blue- in the past couple of years
Fed's biggest challenge may be that he's been so successful and dominant with only 1 tricky hurdle to jump along the way- Rafa. Not to take away from the other guys, but Fed figured everyone else out pretty early
Pete was Never great on clay, and a number of players made him look mediocre on that surface. He also burst into the GSlam winner category only to suffer a mental setback of a couple of years. Also, all the emotional turmoil with Gully dying. He had numerous hurdles, and the opposition on and off court seemed to help him.
Roger's story is much different. He dealt with losing his coach before he won a GSlam, and once he was a GSlam he just kept going. He found Mirka, the media & fans/other players loved/embraced easily. He was successful across all surfaces. Maybe it was a little too easy? Like his story arc is similar to a child prodigy that struggles to find genius in maturity... |
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Posted by jbradhunter |
02/27/2009 at 01:52 AM |
And Pete... I was born in Alabama, still live in the South, Master Ace lives in Birmingham I think... And I don't think either of us would ever say the words "yee hah!"
:)) |
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Posted by Amused |
02/27/2009 at 01:53 AM |
Pete,
1)Fed said this after AO his semi win over Roddick on 01/29/2009:
Q. Back in another Grand Slam final. It’s a great start to the year for you, and so different, I suppose, than the feeling here last year.
ROGER FEDERER: Like I said on the court, I think I played well throughout the tournament last year as well, you know. Just kind of came up short against Novak. I thought he played a fantastic match against me. He was the aggressive one. He was serving his spots so well that night that he kind of made that difficult.
Even maybe if I would have been in perfect shape, you know, I think he deserved to win last year. I struggled maybe a bit. Maybe the draw was a bit better for me this year playing Andy in the semis who I have such a great record against.
2) Fed’s back was a issue BEFORE AO:
Fed was quoted saying this before Doha:
“The preparations were good. I am very confident. Also, the back was able to take it. I wonder how it will look in the following weeks, because now another kind of strain comes, although it is less problematic, but with repetitious movements, could also contain some risks. ”
And before Kooyong Ex, Fed said this:
“Q. Even after the US Open, do you feel better from that?
A. Yes, for sure. Obviously Shanghai was - I don’t know if it was a disappointment, but it was just not meant to be. I had a bad back before, so preparation was terrible, and I got sick during the Masters, so usually I come here after winning the US and Masters. So obviously I feel great, but Shanghai didn’t work out so good because I couldn’t work hard during the off season. ”
http://www.goroger.net/interview/2009/kooyong090114qt.html
So, it’s not like TMF made up his back story after he lost AO final. It’s just that you journo’s picked and choose his words to prove your very bery biased views.
For Nadal, at age of 22, among his 1st hard court slam, his 1st YEC as world no.1, and his 2nd DC final, Nadal choose to focus on his 1st hard court slam, and he nailed it. Bingo! You never questioned his injuries and let down to YEC and DC.
For TMF, at age of 27, among his slam no.14, Dubai, and a 1st round DC, TMC choose to focus on maximizing chance for no.14. Now he’s faking injury, let down DC, and eat babies alive. He never discredit Djork and Nadal’s win. He never gave out injury/illness reasons for his FO/WO loss.
Did you ever give TMF credit for saving YEC when no.1 bailed out for the first time in history, playing injured and did not retire?
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Posted by jbradhunter |
02/27/2009 at 01:54 AM |
Though I did watch "Hee Haw"... And I loved it. |
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Posted by BlueDog |
02/27/2009 at 01:58 AM |
Thanks Vie. I had posted my thoughts on the AO final a few days back, and said that I did find some real positives to take out of it. I think Fed is evolving his game, and I'm encouraged that he is doing what needs to be done with the back/serve. 2009 will provide a lot of answers. Sadly, Fed's detractors will always find an angle of attack. One of my favorite sayings is "Often in err, never in doubt." Very applicable to some fans on both sides.
Slice&Dice- Thanks for the response. That book has also had a large impact on the way I approach practice, both as a longtime musician and a serious beginning tennis player. It really took a lot of ideas that were floating around my head and clarified them in a very useful way. Helped me achieve a new level of discipline and inspiration. |
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Posted by Amused |
02/27/2009 at 02:34 AM |
Fed did plenty of squats (to stretch his back) during his last match at TMC08. And he did some again in AO final. Would/could he dare to acknowledge his back was bothering him a bit? Pete's this article is your answer!
There will be more withdrawals from TMF, from now on, and hopefully so. He's 27, with 10 years of ATP tennis mileage. He's not a machine. He's in his declining phase. No doubt. The better he takes care of his fitness, the more good tennis we can hope for.
But, if you can not support TMF's declining phase. At least leave TMF alone. Don't ridiculed his desire, heart, purse, etc. Go find your new altar. Just make sure to jump off before the new one goes down too. |
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Posted by sean |
02/27/2009 at 04:12 AM |
nadal is so stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted by pogiako |
02/27/2009 at 04:18 AM |
moderator,
this is a response from annabelle: " i did not receive any notice that there is another annabelle. i have not read anyone by that name in pete's post aside from me. in fact, i seldom post at all" |
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Posted by luke |
02/27/2009 at 04:51 AM |
the reason is simple! roger pulled out because he needs to get his financial wealth situated.
HInt: the timing of stanford bust and rogers announcement.
the bust of stanford came first. then several days later, roger out of the blue pulls out !
remember, stanford was the official financial adviser of the atp for many years. |
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Posted by Simon |
02/27/2009 at 05:38 AM |
Back problems maybe...but I think the real problem is not physical but the huge 'weight of expectation' that TMF is carrying on his shoulders. Should he win another slam I am sure you would see the old Roger without the burdens of trying to make tennis history. |
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Posted by Ellie |
02/27/2009 at 05:42 AM |
A great man once wrote...
much ado about nothing! |
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Posted by Puffin |
02/27/2009 at 07:54 AM |
Corrie @12.51 - agree with you! :) I would politely suggest that anyone who thinks Roger is not / has not been really interested in DC has never actually watched any of his DC matches. The man's enthusiasm during them goes beyond bounds! When he plays DC, he is fully involved as a team member. My opinion only, of course, but I think he's probably gutted he's had to make the hard decision not to play in Birmingham - it was a great chance for him to get involved in this year's DC from the beginning: however, there are, after all, another 8 months of tournaments to play after DC, and a potential back problem needs careful handling, if you want to continue playing the rest of the year.
Another scenario has occurred to me (maybe erroneously) after reading some of the rather bitter comments: would people have preferred if the Swiss DC team had carried on the polite fiction that Roger was going to play, but then during the actual weekend, at the last minute, was replaced by an alternative? They could possibly have done this, but instead were their usual upfront and honest selves about the withdrawal beforehand. This way, the US team don't have to get psyched up to play Roger, only for it all to fall flat half an hour before the match begins. Just curious!
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Posted by Slice-n-Dice |
02/27/2009 at 08:53 AM |
Very well put, Puffin. I couldn't agree with you more. Think about how Gasquet backed out at the last moment when he was scheduled to play Roddick in the 3rd rubber. Even Coach Guy Forget was stunned by his lack of commitment.
Roger Federer, much like Pete Sampras before him, and Rod Laver before him, is a consummate professional. He has held the game and his place in the pantheon of great players in the highest regard, and has rarely if ever done anything to blemish that record. I see no reason to doubt him now. |
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Posted by TL |
02/27/2009 at 09:28 AM |
It would have been great to see Roger play Andy in a Davis Cup tie in the U.S. Andy plays his best in this type of situation. But what's with Patrick MacEnroe's 'Yee-Hah" comment? It also seems, Pete, as if you have some regional bias against Birmingham. Tennis is huge in Alabama, as it is throughout the South. Just wondering.... |
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Posted by amused |
02/27/2009 at 09:51 AM |
TMF seems could do nothing right ever since he failed to nail his no.14 RIGHT AFTER no.13.
I can't help wonder what Pete wrote about Sampras when Sampras took 18+ months btw his no.13 & 14? |
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Posted by naughty T, blond, blue eyed and weirdly not offended |
02/27/2009 at 10:07 AM |
good question amused. I remember a lot of Sampras is finished talk then as well. Small people like to attack bigger people on mass, when they are down...apparently makes them feel better. The reason 14 is the record is because... it is REALLY hard to win that many slams, it is hard enough to win one. If Fed excuses himself from DC for the bigger goal then good luck to him.
sit back and watch you glib little people. sit back and watch. |
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Posted by Slice-n-Dice |
02/27/2009 at 10:23 AM |
"...it is REALLY hard to win that many slams, it is hard enough to win one."
Ain't THAT the truth, Ruth.
There are a number of great, HoF players who have three, four, five and six Slams -- Arthur Ashe (3), Gustavo Kuerten (3), Guillermo Vilas (4), Jim Courier (4), Frank Sedgman (5), Tony Trabert (5), Boris Becker (6), Stefan Edberg (6), and Rafael Nadal (6).
To win eight or more automatically nets you a seat in the GOAT debate. |
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Posted by Moderator |
02/27/2009 at 10:33 AM |
pogiako
assuming you're not *annabelle*, the notice was given in the comments section after another recent post, as she doesn't supply an email address. The published Site Rule is that people must use distinct screen names here - all she needs to so is add an initial, for example.
Unfortunately the software doesn't apply this rule automatically, so moderators sometimes need to get involved in requesting a name change. |
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Posted by Kate |
02/27/2009 at 11:03 AM |
I like Roger and enjoy his tennis but one thing that struck me as odd as that he was seen at a party in Dubai. I know he has a place there but wouldn't it have been prudent if saying he pulled out with a back injury to stay away? Just a thought. I hope the Rafa/Roger rivalry goes on all year, I for one, enjoy it a lot. |
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Posted by Andrew |
02/27/2009 at 11:03 AM |
The Sampras question is interesting if you look at his career from a slightly different angle.
He's rightly celebrated for winning 14 GS titles over his career - more than any other ATP player (of course, this is still some distance behind Court, Graf, Navratilova and Evert, but we're talking chaps for a moment).
But the only time Pete Sampras played in three GS finals in a calendar year was 1995 (F AO, W Wimbledon, USO). Everyone knows that Sampras didn't make the RG final in his career: OK, let's take RG out of the equation. Sampras had one year when he made all three non-clay finals, and four years (1993, 1994, 1997 and 2000) when he made two of three.
I'm not (remotely) picking on Pete Sampras, one of the greatest (male) players to ever pick up a tennis racquet. Instead, I'm trying to get across the idea that Federer's achievements have been so insanely strong in the last five years that somehow the idea that he's only won one GS title in the last five is seen as struggling.
Federer has played in all four GS finals in two years, three in two years, and two once (2005, L SF to Safin and Nadal). He's played in 14 of the last 15 GS finals.
The only player in the Open Era who comes remotely close in terms of consistency is Borg, 1978-1981 (three years with three finals (2W, 1L, one year with 2W). Borg didn't compete in the AO after 1973.
I mean, I'll happily argue with crazyone about service motions, and I have no difficulty accepting that Nadal is currently the player to beat in the ATP - with Murray rising as a force. But there's a massive recency effect (those tears! the monster!) in looking at Federer right now, and it doesn't add up. |
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Posted by Slice-n-Dice |
02/27/2009 at 11:40 AM |
Andrew... agreed.
And when we talk about dominance, I'm leaning toward the notion that a 3- to 5-year window of dominating results is probably the gold standard in the contemporary game, and going forward, what with the demands of the tour and the rapid ascension of the "young guns" in today's game.
So, looking at the past four to five years, Federer' record has been incredible. What: 19 or 20 straight Slam semifinal berths?
14 of 15 of the most recent Slam finals, as you point out? Five straight Wimbledons from 2003 to 2007? Five straight U.S. Opens, from 2004 to 2008, and still going!
A "bad" year is when he reaches three Slam finals and one semifinal, and takes home one trophy! By anyone else's standards, even Nadal's, that would be an awesome year. |
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Posted by Marian |
02/27/2009 at 11:55 AM |
Andrew,
Love to follow your comments. All these little details will be forgotten in the future but they give depth to Roger's achievements.
I read also some criticism about Roger's lack of nationalism and I'd like to point out that in Europe is fierce specially since the EU was founded. The way the Europeans feel about their countries isn't shown in a theatrical way. Exception to this is of course the histrionics of the soccer supporters but they are a minority.
To question Roger's feelings about Switzerland because he misses a tennis competition is suspicious and I mistrust any person who writes such an opinion. |
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Posted by l3opard |
02/27/2009 at 11:55 AM |
I think he is practicing the two handed backhand to account for the high top spin, in a personalized clay court..lol
Great insights and smart comments from Hart, Bluedog,crazyone..
I really hope he wins the 14th with a FO win and then breaks the record in Wimbledon this year. I know, its a stretch of imagination with Rafa being Rafa, but lets not discount the fact that after Rafa, TMF is the best clay court player.
Regarding his back issue, I don't understand what's all the hoopla about. He said he is going to take the few weeks to condition and fitness. Do you all want him to look like Djoko and give up in the middle of the match? I totally agree that Djoko was genuinely feeling the heat, and maybe he has breathing problems, but he started to show signs of it as early as the first set. I just don't think a professional at that level should feel it so early.
Anyways, everyone has their say and that's what makes it great. I don't need to provide the facts and quotes because lot of you here have already done a great job about presenting it.
In the end I think Fed is definitely running out of time (because lot of good players are coming up fast) so he needs to break the record this year and whatever he wins after is just bonus!
cheers. |
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Posted by crazyone |
02/27/2009 at 12:22 PM |
Andrew, I don't think I actually have heard your take on Fed's service motion. Do you think it's the same as before, with the same amount of back arch and knee bend, and the same fluidity? I didn't have that much time to look at youtube yesterday but there are fewer clips from the AO/Doha (stupid youtube, taking away our tennis videos) now and the ones I found focused on the face and then switched to the court. So I'll keep looking.
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Posted by Archie |
02/27/2009 at 12:47 PM |
I completely believe in what fed is saying.You journalist just wants create some controversies and trying to keep your job alive when there is not much going on in the court. |
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Posted by ASHWIN!!! |
02/27/2009 at 02:16 PM |
FIRST!!!
and yeah. I have found roger different since loosing to novak last year. He just doesnt seem to believe in himself anymore. Injureis are also occuring more now too.
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Posted by V.P |
02/27/2009 at 03:19 PM |
Ok, first of all, federer was not faking the mono, and just cuase he fought through it doesnt mean he didnt have it. Any wanna explain to me how he lost a lot of weight in the begining of the year in 2008??i didnt think so and #2 i hate how people are all up on federer. It's his game and his life, let him freakin live it, people make it sound like federer is done with and all that BS. thats not true, he mite not be #1 but hes still #2 so hes still there. There might be other reasons for pulling out, idk but he probably did it becuase he thought it would be the best for him and it probably could be, who konws, all i know is that just cuase he lost in the finals doesnt make him a looser...he made it to the finalsss!!! plus he fought tough sets with nadal so there...thats all i got to say. |
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Posted by Alexis |
02/27/2009 at 03:28 PM |
This is an enlightening discussion. It may also be worth adding to the various reasons being bandied about with regard to Federer skipping this first round of the DC, that what he is effectively doing by not playing is also ensuring that he will not have to play any further DC encounters over what will be a crucial year for him, because, had he chosen to play, there is a chance that Switzerland would win the tie and progress, involving him in further DC ties this year. So, if he is trying to focus his mind on Wimbledon and the US Open, in particular, restricting any other commitments probably is crucial. |
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Posted by JimF |
02/27/2009 at 04:01 PM |
Crazy one is right and you're wrong when you wrote : "showed no sign of physical distress."
DId you actually watch the fifth set of the Australian Open? Federer had trouble serving the entire match then suddenly, early in the fifth set, he stopped moving. And went for second-serve aces, completely uncharacteristically.
At the time I said: "What happened to him? Did his back just seize up?" The commentator, Cahill, also noted the sudden change, but attributed it to an emotional let up.
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Posted by RoastLamb |
02/27/2009 at 04:17 PM |
I wish FedEx would simply retire then we can stop speculating and move on to more interesting topics. |
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Posted by bobby |
02/27/2009 at 04:39 PM |
he may not have looked injured in the australian open but he didn't look too keen on long rallies in the 5th set of the final?
Why? I believe that its because he didn't train hard physically in the offseason because he needed to rest his back. so ,he came to australia fresh,fast, in good form, and probably pain free but not actually cut out to go for long gruelling matches. he didn't have the stamina he'd need. and he paid in the later stages of the final. after retrieving the 4th set he was spent. |
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Posted by Jayson Waddell |
02/27/2009 at 08:02 PM |
Man that was an awful read, just get to the point. |
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Posted by Key Punch |
02/27/2009 at 09:13 PM |
Pete-
Why don't you like Roger Federer. You are continuiously putting him down and finding every fault of his game. Why don't you like Roger Federer!!! |
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Posted by Bravo |
02/27/2009 at 09:14 PM |
Pete
Why don't you like Roger Federer. Please explain the dislike you have of him. |
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Posted by Natto |
02/27/2009 at 09:16 PM |
I would also like to know why Pete doesn't like Roger Federer. Please explain!!!! You articles past and present is a direct dislike towards a great player!!! |
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Posted by OldRadicalHeadGuy |
02/28/2009 at 01:10 AM |
Wow! What a bloated, overstated blog. If by your theroy, RF is in his 3rd stage, he should be able to take time off at his own discretion provided he does not back out of commitments that would seriously disrupt events. he needs to do whatever he feels he needs to do to win more majors and pursue the accolades of greatest ever. |
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Posted by |
02/28/2009 at 01:11 AM |
Sure Federer is ailing his ego,he is having a hard time admitting
to himself someone will come along and beat him..Well he is beating
alot every since remember 13 major titles,now somebody like Nadal
coming along great now he is crying..He wants all the glory for
himself..well got news for you Fed you can,t have them all..Not
only Nadal gunning his way but also Verdasco,Murray and all those
hard working tennis players..So smile and be jolly no more tears
and excuses for withdrawing in your own Davis Cup..No.14 will or
may not come so don't be a sore loser.You are rich too rich and
famous already..Don't get to greddy...
s
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Posted by |
02/28/2009 at 01:12 AM |
Sure Federer is ailing his ego,he is having a hard time admitting
to himself someone will come along and beat him..Well he is beating
alot every since remember 13 major titles,now somebody like Nadal
coming along great now he is crying..He wants all the glory for
himself..well got news for you Fed you can,t have them all..Not
only Nadal gunning his way but also Verdasco,Murray and all those
hard working tennis players..So smile and be jolly no more tears
and excuses for withdrawing in your own Davis Cup..No.14 will or
may not come so don't be a sore loser.You are rich too rich and
famous already..Don't get to greddy...
s
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Posted by Jetta |
02/28/2009 at 05:01 AM |
I was very disappointed with the article on Federer/Stages of Great. This is a direct attack on Federer by someone who obviously doesn't like him. Federer loves tennis and his reasons for pulling out of Davis Cup (which he had put in his full share of in his early years),was clearly thought through. Remember that Federer trains with his Davis Cup Coach, so he had to have agreed with Federer as to omit Davis Cup for his Spring schedule. This is a champion preparing to overtake Sampras's record soon. You will all be very foolish (Pete B) if Fed wins French, Wimbleton,US Open THIS YEAR!!! Let the champion rest!!! |
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Posted by Backhand blaster |
02/28/2009 at 08:47 AM |
Slice and Dice states: "A "bad" year is when he reaches three Slam finals and one semifinal, and takes home one trophy! By anyone else's standards, even Nadal's, that would be an awesome year." Obviously Roger would gladly trade his last 12 months for Rafa's last 12 months of play.
I agree that Roger's results have continued to be stellar in the majors, it is in the Masters and other events that his results have slipped along with his number 1 ranking. In a sports chat forum like this one where people try to predict the future, these losses...to Fish, to Canas, to Simon...these are the losses that bring doubt to his continued success to what has been an amazing career. For what it's worth I think TMF will win his 14th slam this year. His game is made for grass and Rafa has struggled mightily at the US Open. One or both could/should fall for Roger. |
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Posted by Jeremy |
02/28/2009 at 08:56 AM |
Wow, that sure was a long-winded way to say that you aren't sure of the reason for Fed's withdrawal. Please feel free to contribute when you have some actual perspective to offer on the issue. |
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Posted by Frances |
02/28/2009 at 02:21 PM |
i just want to put my two cents on this ongoing 'if roger had serve better..he should have won the AO" debacle..what about if nadal had won the semifinal in 3 sets and have the same number of days rest -- now thats an interest scenario.. who would have really won if both were playing at their high level... stats shows nadal edges federer 13 over 19 games-- thats too much of a frequency of win to justify that the only reason TMF losses to Nadal is because he was not his best... |
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Posted by Edwin |
02/28/2009 at 03:02 PM |
Pete no offense, but I think you have nothing else to write about. Many players get hurt and many pull out of tournaments. Should we think that Nadal’s reason for pulling out is also for a totally different reason, perhaps that he needs to rest? Should we think Roddick's decision to pull out of Dubai was for a totally different reason than what he had already stated? Perhaps that he does not feel like traveling all the way to Dubai when he needs to come right back for Davis Cup. No, I wouldn't doubt him, as much as I wouldn't doubt Federer. How many times has Federer pulled out of tournaments? Not many. I think is reasonable to think that he is getting older and his body is now acting up, but I for one will give him the benefit of the doubt, (if there is any doubt). And I think he deserves more respect from you, instead of writing unsubstantiated comments. |
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Posted by tennishack |
02/28/2009 at 04:53 PM |
Wow a lot of psychobabble about Roger's purported state of mind and other inane theories to mask your real disappointment that he chose to renege on his DC commitment.
I've followed tennis passionately all my life. Never have cared about the Davis cup and I suspect its true of a lot of serious and casual fans of the game. Don't they have a team tennis competition every four years at the olympics?
No one knows what Roger is thinking or going through. For all we know, he may be partying and relaxing in his Dubai lair. He's said in the past that his biggest goal is longevity in the game. If he sticks around, he'll get those 2 GS titles one way or the other. Our man Bodo's buddy/paymaster Sampras himself took his time for the final two. Agassi was able to find a second wind late in his career. No reason why Roger cannot do it.
I agree with just one point - Roger needs to stop trying to please everyone and pursue his individual goals. I think he may have been pressured into prematurely committing to DC this year bcos of his success at the Olympics last year. |
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Posted by Amused |
03/02/2009 at 02:15 AM |
"Wow a lot of psychobabble about Roger's purported state of mind and other inane theories to mask your real disappointment that he chose to renege on his DC commitment. "
Right on, tennishack. I'd feel very sympathetic with Pete and DC fans if Pete just ranted about how Fed spoiled the big DC party in Birmingham, how fans and sponsors are let down, blah blah blah. But he, again, played this god-like judgemental role by questioning Fed's character and integrity, and in doing so greatly, again, diminishes his own credibility as one of senior tennis reporters.
Pete, which stage of reporting are you in? |
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