Definitely an A match. Would've been A+ without the high # of DFs by Lena.

As for Lena's lone (and crucial) MP, I agree that Lena should've gone DTL. But it's hard to fault her for sticking to the tried-and-true routine, as Serena hadn't been very sharp at the net until that point.

NP : Agree that Elena didn't donate a single one of the important points. She courageously went for an outright DTL winner on matchpoint down and missed by millimetres. Credit to Serena for finishing some important points at the net.

VC, but had Lena gone DTL and made the shot, she would've been in her 1st Slam final. U know, kinda like what Roger did against Haas. :) That's what separates the champions from the mere contenders.

that was an insulting article

Excellent post Mr. Bodo. My hat's off to you.

Keep Smiling

"VC, but had Lena gone DTL and made the shot, she would've been in her 1st Slam final. U know, kinda like what Roger did against Haas. :) That's what separates the champions from the mere contenders."

She has been in 2 Slam finals before (and beat Serena on the way to winning Gold Medal in Beijing). Not saying she's one of the all-time greats, but sometimes you need a bit of luck as well in such tight matches. :-)

My bad, VC. Should've read her 1st Wimby final. As for luck, the greats tend to create it on their own. :)

Very very nice article. Love the point about good serving = good matches in the women's game. Really true.

When I look back at the truly good (not just the close) great women's matches it always seems like strong serving (at least on one players part) is key to the equation. Think Graf/Seles 1993 Aussie or 1995 US.

*happy at last*

the elena d vs. serena match was the best women's match of the year by far.

i'm just thrilled that my girls are back in the final.

ESPN2 will have their highlight show at 8 PM TW and will be on until 10 PM TW. Guess what is going to be showed the majority of the time?

"Guess what is going to be showed the majority of the time?"

MA, U mean anatomically?

Astonishingly good match. A true joy to watch.

Of course, the real reason it was so good is that Lena has changed physique in off-season to be able to compete with Serena. And anyone who believes Serena acquired her muscles from mineral water alone is delusional in the extreme. But this is the great problem with doping in sport: it's an arms race. You either join 'em or get crushed by 'em. When you have such fantastic competition as we saw today, then people are not going to complain and will turn a blind eye to what really produced it. And does it really matter? Well, the reason I bring this up is that it saddens me, seeing Laura Robson battling away this week, that if she really wants to join the top flight of the women's game (and she has the gifts), then the only way is to imperil her health with steroids, HGH and who knows what else.

It is sad to see Elena with her new body but perhaps it is none of my business how she acquired it. But if I was the father a promising young tennis player, this match would depress the life out of me.

"She's a spirit-driven person, and that spirit operates with regal disregard for whatever else is going on in Serena's muscles or lungs."

This is why she's a champion. The great ones always find a way to put mind over matter. Serena doesn't let negative energy complicate the game when she's down.

What a phenomenal match - they both won in my opinion - Elena gave it everything she had (that makes her a winner in my book).

And thanks to Serena and Vee for getting to another all-Williams final - they won me a free lunch at the restaurant of my choice.

If my buddy is reading this now: Never bet against my girls!

What the heck happened to Dinara? Was Venus really on fire--or were Dinara's demons visiting her today?

Marsh Harrier: this is not the first time you've made similar allegations. They carry no weight without substantiation other than your opinion due to what you believe you see, which is not enough to be convincing. Sheesh, even l'Equipe hasn't reported on doping in the WTA ranks, and they'll print headlines about there being drugs in pharmacies.

I'm quite willing to read some reasonably factual reporting. You should either come up with the goods or let it go.

"Of course, the real reason it was so good is that Lena has changed physique in off-season to be able to compete with Serena. And anyone who believes Serena acquired her muscles from mineral water alone is delusional in the extreme."

*beyonce asked directions to the library face*

say what?

Pete, that description of the second semi sounds awfully similar to a certain scene in an Indiana Jones movie. And it's probably all you can say about it, actually. The guys in the press room should have given Dinara a break, i bet she wasnt very happy herself to have all of them trying to open the wound even more. But it was `probably to be expected.
Thanks for the analysis of the first semi, as i couldnt watch it. Dementieva certainly never gave up and fought till the last point, but Serena is just too much in this situations. I agree that her serve was keeping her in the match in the final stages of the 3rd (the only part i saw) as Lena was really punishing her in the rallies.
I find a similarity between Serena and Nadal here: in very close, agonizing matches that in the end become battles of will, they very rarely lose, because their fighting spirit is just at a different level.

Mr. X,

This is why it was fitting for Serena to write the article about Rafa - they're fighting spirit is certainly aligned.

feel SO bad for Elena, would have really infused women's tennis with some energy had she won, instead of the Williams Sisters Exhibition Tour rolling on to another lackluster final where no one knows who to cheer for and there's no tension in the air ...

granted the US Open quarter was great, but i think non finals are set up with more tension between the two, finals jus suck the life out of the match for some reason...

come back Champagne Kimmie, the women need you bad!

Serena was shocked by Elena's serving and no crumbling. Waited for the double faults and they never came. After being down match point she realised she had to play

"And anyone who believes Serena acquired her muscles from mineral water alone is delusional in the extreme." There we go again! Hi MH, until you show us the proof that Serena is using HGH, your claim is just a bluff.

The top 4 players all reached the SF. Does that not justify the ranking system.

Hard loss for Dementieva however in her presser she seemed to be positive about play. Even Safina reaching the SF and being pummeled by Venus may help her in the future on grass. You only get better by playing the best.

Safina will increase her lead at #1 by getting to the SF and unless she totally breaks down in the summer and either Venus and Serena show up and win everything, she will be #1 for the USO.

Clisters returns in a month at Cincinnati.

It should be an interesting summer.

However, the men seem to be more exciting at this point. We could have a first time winner or Federer reaching an all time record slams at the same time regaining the #1 and he may do it in front of the Queen and Sampras and Borg. Or we have no Queen a possibly a Roddick win.

I knew Tim would come into bash women's tennis after such a great match. Tim, nothing positive to say??? Tim, when was the last time the guys gave us such a great match??? Great article Pete.

This is why it was fitting for Serena to write the article about Rafa - they're fighting spirit is certainly aligned.

Serena wrote an article about rafa?

Tim is right, i bet Roger vs Roddick final 'll be plenty of tension in the air.

Serena said she never saw Lena serve like that during her post match interview. Lena would have beat anybody. Her first and second serve was unbelievable. I thought it was like Sharapova serving prior to her injury. Lena can win a GS with that serve, she always had the ground game. And Marsh Harrier, could you please publish your proof or spare us your unfounded accusations.

I dont follow mens tennis religously but I love Rafa Roger finals cos they bring out the best in each other and you cant predict for sure whats going to happen. Same with theses two, they bring out the best in each other and no one can say for sure who is going to win. If you want a competetive match on grass, you'd want them playing in the final otherwise that Venus Dinara match could easily have been a final. No one wants to see that

Hey all. :) *waves* Hope you are having a lovely time, Pete!

There's usually a few stand-out matches on the women's side in slams, isn't there, alongside the men's? It's not like Serena-Demmy is is the only decent one ever.

Hm...I remember last year's Wimbledon final being both high-quality and competitive between the Williams sisters...don't I? And I certainly don't remember them playing each in every final in recent years. Don't understand the Williams Exhibition stuff. *shrug*

Venus was awesomely good today, and that's always worth watching, even if the match itself was not good. Sad for Safina, but it's her best result at Wimbledon by a long way, and Venus is surely one of the all-time great Wimbledon players.

LOL, NP - beginning the arguments over Master Ace's Best-of-Year list already? ;-) Did Elena really serve so many DFs? I don't remember them being a feature, didn't see the first half of the match though, so maybe.

Marsh Harrier,

I don't know if you have been watching Elena for along time, but she has always had that kind of body. So if she uses steroids, it didn't start this Wimbledon. Even if we assume she's been using steroids, it hasn't done her much good until she's fixed her serve. So even if tennis players used steroids, it seems it's not enough to win.

Marsh Harrier, Ku
1. The doping standards are pretty strict. Since it is an individual sport, there's no room to fudge. So, I don't think Elena is a suspect.

2. As Pete B opined in an earlier post about Gasquet and the influence of Cocaine, steroids is another one in more or less the same category. Steroids use is not a proven gimme for Tennis. Tennis requires a different physiology (of course a big long subject) and is a mostly a mind game (hence mentally the toughest sport second only to boxing) on the court once you have solid basics. Hand-eye coordination, reflex, elasticity and power (not as much as brute strength) are some of the key criterias.

An overwhelming majority of guys with skinny arms (take your pick from 60s through now - I start with say Michael Stich) can throw 120, 130 mph serves effortlessly. Much as in Cricket where the skinnest dudes generate the most pace when it comes to bowling. And Rafa - with all that muscle (no, no, this is NOT a fedal war topic) - never clocked 120+ mph (he indeed has improved the speed last year) and his second serves are relatively softer. Point is, Muscles never aid tennis play in a big way (conditioning it does, but that's not steroids job I hear).

In reading Dina's press conference I get a feeling of what happened, she said that Venus was forcing her to go for shots that she wasn't comfortable with. I thought she wasn't trying, but it turns out she was trying too hard. All credit to her.

*high fives Samantha*

Why is it when a player does well the whole drug discussion starts? I don't know if Serena is or is not using drugs, until it is proven I have to say no. Look at her mother, most of her body type was inherited from her. It is not difficult to believe that with a trainer to define/tone the muscles she would look the way she does along with genetics. Elena has had the same body type for years. Yes she looks a little more toned. I was sad for her today because she played great tennis....but you cannot deny Serena's desire and her ability to play the big points. I'm wondering if the theory is that the WTA is covering Serena's dirty drug screens, she is not being tested, or she has discovered an undetectable drug...which she could sell and make a fortune for?

I wanna see a Serena/Rafa love child. Now, that would be some kid!

Safina- You have to feel for her. I wonder what kind of support she really receives from her family and inner circle. It is hard to believe that she would be as big a head case as her brother...and I say that with affection because he and Nalbandian are my favorite players. Sooner or later she will win a Grand Slam. It was just very disappointing, especially after the first match.

Blake and Fish blew a two set lead. I guess it is up to the Bryan brothers. Since they don't play doubles that often I still give them credit for making it this far..

Go Andy! That's the first time I think I've said that in a long time! Hopefully Haas will make it more competitve than Dinara did.

"But one point demands mention - the match point 'Lena held with Serena serving at 4-5 in the third."
NBC thought so, too, Pete. As I read that sentence, they showed the point.
Great match. One for the memory books.

Let it be on the record that I am in no way agreeing with Marsh Harrier. I am saying his argument wouldn't hold true even if we assumed steroid use. My argument was that even if Elena was using steroids it hasn't made a difference in her body or her game so there is no basis to believe the improved performance was from the juice.

As for Serena, I remember her saying right after her Australian Open 2007 win, that all players are tested very often.. So unless she takes some quick acting and dissolving HGH, I'd say it's safe to assume she's clean.

Hey stats question guys:

The sisters are playing in their 8th slam final on Saturday. Where does that stand among the all-time great rivalries? I know Evert and Navratilova have met more times in a slam final, but are there any other great pairings that have met more times than the sisters?

OT time: Finally a polite wrinkling of the nose at NBC. I say, bring out the court martial or code-red or whatever they did to that kid in A Few Good Men.

Richard Sandomir, of The New York Times, writes, “If NBC Sports can’t carry Wimbledon matches live, especially crucial ones, it shouldn’t carry Wimbledon at all. The network’s tape-delay dance — and its excuses — have grown tired. Here’s what happened Wednesday: at 8 a.m. Eastern, ESPN2 started showing the Tommy Haas-Novak Djokovic match live (!) until early in the third set. But the network had to leave at 10 a.m., when NBC’s exclusive three-hour window kicked in. That was NBC’s cue to go to the videotape of Roger Federer’s straight-sets victory over Ivo Karlovic — on an unnerving two-hour delay. Then, as if diced-and-sliced tennis were how its surveys found that fans preferred to watch Grand Slam events, NBC showed the rest of the Haas-Djokovic match on what was a four- to five-hour delay.”

Thanks for this post, Pete. That was some match today. I saw Richard Williams take off his hat and bow to Serena; I'd do the same to both women.

I'm a post-match presser junkie, but I haven't got around to reading Safina's presser. I feel terrible about the way she was questioned even though I've read that she stood up for herself quite well.

I am no Pollyanna, but I have a feeling that we'll be looking back and laughing about these days when she's having so much trouble winning the big ones.

Of course, Safina could just relax, wait for the "weak era" after the Williamses retire, and win everything in sight! LOL

ptenisnet: "Rafael Nadal has been selected as one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential personalities of the past year. Serena salutes her "hero":

I have never seen such tenacity, such ambition, such fight and such honor go into every shot as when I watch Rafael Nadal. I want to be like him. The attitude he exudes the moment he walks out on the court is the attitude of a true champion. A champion whose desire to win is the same as the desire of a lion to eat. Stalking his prey with force and speed, Nadal, 22, has already become one of the game's all-time best.... (from Time Magazine)

I'm pleased the WTA managed to produce one classic semi-final, but bitterly disappointed that we have another all-Williams sister final.

It's nobody's fault, but the atmosphere at their matches is flat and it's awfully hard for anyone other than really hardcore tennis fans to care about the outcome. It's not good for the sisters (who make no secret of the fact they dislike playing each other), it's not good for Wimbledon, and it's not good for our sport.

To repeat - it's nobody's fault, just a great shame.

Samantha--I don't think Tim knows anything positive to say. The only player he seems to adore is Roger & even that sometimes sounds crass. GREAT MATCH today, Well done Serena & Elena!

I like what you said & how you said it, Mr. Bodo.

TripleF - I completely agree with your comments about NBC. Their coverage is absolutely pathetic. I am not sure why they pretend to carry Wimbledon live when all they do is show tape delayed matches. I really feel bad that ESPN2 has to cave in to NBC and not show the so called "protected matches" like the 1st match yesterday between Federer and Karlovic. I just ended up watching the whole match on my laptop through one of the streaming channels. Quality was in fact excellent. NBC is living under some kind of illusion that people in this Internet age will actually wait several hours to watch a tape delayed match when they can do it live through other means and get all the latest information with a simply mouse click. NBC is living in the Stone Ages. ESPN2 should simply take it over completely.

Richard Sandomir, thank you!!! NBC, wake-up, fans all over the United States sat at their computers watching live streams (again)today. This cannot make your advertisers happy. Please leave the slams to a network that knows what they're doing.

ESPN, Cliff and Mary Jo were fantastic, as was your LIVE coverage!!

For years whenever the WS played each other in major finals, it was usually an error fest and we used to hear oh why cant they play a clean match with lots of winners and no unforced errors. Today,Venus did just that and we still have the hand wringing. During this whole tournament today was the first day that Serena's error count was above 10 in a match. Last year during the women's final, for every point played that ended in an error, there were 3 that ended in winners. The stats from last year's Wimby final between the sisters showed a clean, well fought match. I am not sure what people are expecting in tennis these days. When I first started playing I was told by my coach that tennis is a game of errors and the player who makes the least amount of errors wins the point and subsequently the match. Do we want the players to play perfect tennis, Venus played almost perfect tennis today and yet there are still folks griping. Serena and Elena played a match today that will go down in the annals of tennis as one of the best matches ever played, and still we are griping. What the dickens do we want from these ladies. I have watched men's matches where the guys cannot even keep the ball in the court and there are so many double faults on break points, match points etc that I have had to turn off my tv in disgust. Who can forget the Great Roger Federer's meltdown earlier this year when his forehand went off to join Serena's forehand in Hawaii on vacation. He felt so bad he destroyed his racquet. I am a bit tired of coming to this site and having to read through posts of people who should know better (just because they are fans of tennis) belittle players just because of a result and wax poetic about others just because of who they are.

I really liked this post match comment from Serena:

"Elena played so well, and we gave the crowd a wonderful match," Serena said. "It was really, really tough."

Sums it up, doesn't it?

It's absolutely amazing to me that Serena, at 5'9, has a serve that excels many of the guys'.

ICAM--Cayman Karen! When they're out of the game people complain & derogate--now that they are back & competing ferociously &, I might add, giving the women's game MUCH NEEDED LIFE, there are still some who continue to whine. I say, if you don't like them--don't watch. For every fan who does not want to watch there are millions more who do. S & V are the best thing to happen to the WTA. Appreciate them while they're here cos when they're gone we will be stuck with the Safinas, Ivanovics & Jankovics of this world. It will be a contest of: think-u-can-choke-look-what-I-can-do!

Poster Roger on an all Williames final, ..."it's not good for the sister." Want to bet!! Both have said many times, they want to face each other in the final. Patrick, hi, are you sure that ESPN 2 will show this match at 8P.M. because it's not listed on their schedule. But I would love to see it again? Thanks if you know.

God bless U, Richard Sandomir; God bless U!

@Ruth - LOL at your weak era. When will that be? If Venus is to be believed she will be playing well into her 40s. Can you imagine Venus Williams coming into Wimbledon at the age of 40, possibly with husband and children in tow trying to win her 15 Wimbledon title. They may decide to start telling her to retire already so that someone else can win.
In typing this post I am of the view that this is the real reason that Venus does so well at Wimbledon. She just loves the place. The whole atmosphere, just everything that Wimbledon represents is what Venus loves.
Pet peeve: can we petition Nick Bolliterri(sp?) to stop calling Wimbledon, Wimbleton. It grates on my nerve every year.

By my 'thumb rule' (I have 2): The thrill-and-competitive-tennis-quotient for Semis is a constant. It's an unprovable pet theory of mine, so don't contest it. Remember Rafa-Nole in Madrid followed by Roger's. Otherwise, we can't take it. It is exhausting. See, Serena consumed 98% of it and so Venus had to make do with the rest. Given that, I hope and pray Roger uses as little as possible tomorrow as I am looking forward to a Andys marathon (of course by cyber-squatting given NBC has buries its face in its own derrier during GS season) . Regardless, I have a feeling that the Andys could be a barn-burner.

I predicted a year ago that WS finals would begin living up to their potential. I think that, once again, I was right. :)

Never thought I'd be so heartbroken to see Lena D. lose a match...Such a huge opportunity wasted, both her serve and return were impressive, she was better player in baseline exchanges, was moving so much better and she still only ends up with a pat on her back. Story of her life, I guess...Commies to her fans.
And of course, congrats to Serena on yet another "cheating death" act, there's certainly no denying that girl's champion mentality.

When we had Chris-Martina finals, we had fervent Chris fans and fervent Martina fans. When we had Monica-Steffi finals, we had had fervent Monica and fervent Steffi fans. Somehow, I don't think a WS final brings that same dynamic--because they're sisters, and that mutes the rivalry for their fans. Am I right this time, as well? Can a V (or S) fan root as hard when the opponent is the sister, as when it is someone else?

Q. Does your head‑to‑head record against Venus matter to you?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, not really. I think ‑‑ uhm, no, I don't think so.

Q. You're aware it's 10‑10?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. I think it's like something super intense. It's a great setting. I can see it now.

Q. Would you like it to end even?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Would I like it to end even? Of course not. Then I wouldn't win. I'm sure she feels the same.

tongue flapping and thighs (and those are some thighs) twitching.... Hmmmm... Richard Williams might be calling you soon Pete.
Regards,
Ramana

I liked this one from Serena as well:

Q. Andy Roddick said last night how when he looks at you and Venus, how proud he is having known you for so long. What do you think when you look at him at this tournament?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I've been rooting for Andy so hard. Yesterday when he was playing Lleyton, I was screaming at the TV saying, C'mon. I think I startled people next to me. I really want him to do well here.

And nothing against Andy Murray, but I'm just rooting for the American. I really, really want him to do well.

Last copy/paste of the evening (I promise) but this was great from Vee:

Q. This isn't your fault obviously because you played really well, but it's embarrassing for women's tennis to see the No. 1 destroyed in that way, isn't it?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Why do you put it like that?

Q. You played very well.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Are you trying to be down on women's tennis?

Q. I'm trying to be down on the way that Safina is the world No. 1 representing women's tennis.

VENUS WILLIAMS: So you're trying to be down basically.

Q. Not on women's tennis, no.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Okay, because I don't deal with down at all.

Q. It's not down.

VENUS WILLIAMS: I'm just making sure you're not trying to be down, because I respect Dinara Safina immensely, and I think you should, too.

Q. I do.

VENUS WILLIAMS: Thanks.

Q. When you see the No. 1 losing 1 and O, it doesn't look great for women's tennis, does it?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I think women's tennis is fantastic.

Nice article.

Intermatch dialogue:

Me: "IfI didn't know better I would have said that Andy Roddick was serving"(this during serena service game)

Brother who was watching match w\me: "yea, it sure seems like it"

Seems like we weren't the only ones what that idea!

Love the Serena and Venus comments after their matches and Venus refusing to bash Dinara.

Today’s match between Serena and Elena was one of those where you wish they could have both won and neither had to lose. I was really rooting for Elena because I want here to win a grand slam some day- but Srena deserved her win. I just hope that Elena can come back strong at the USO and finally get her grand slam title.

The sisters are back.

Now that Justine is gone, there's room for them again. Between Henin's first GS win and her last (7th), Serena managed only 3 major titles and Venus two. Clearly Justine was dominant during that period.

The meeting on Saturday will be their 8th in a major final. This is the second highest number of GS final meetings for any pair after the 14 by Evert and Navratilova. This beats the 3rd place seven by Federer-Nadal, Graf-SanchezVicario, and WillsMoody-Jacobs...

"Tim, when was the last time the guys gave us such a great match???"

Samantha ... how about the five-set shoot outs between Murray/Wawrinka and Roddick/Hewitt played in the last few days?

Justine? You know, if you go back you'll find that they missed some of those Grand Slams due to injury. Serena has had major knee surgery and ankle problems and Venus has had wrist surgery, an adominal tear, and numerous other injuries. There were several years Serena didn't play one or two slams of the season...not to mention their personal loss and tragedy. I take nothing away from Justine, but I really don't see her as the reason why Venus and Serena did not win Grand Slams.

To my knowledge in this time they are the only ones on either side to come back from major surgeries and either be in Grand Slam finals or win them...

another boring final
they already know who is going to win

Oh I forgot to mention that Justine had to play almost every tournament to keep those ranking points up and played her way into exhausted retirement....yeah, Serena and Venus may not have stayed at #1, which based upon the recent Jankovic and Safina examples doesn't really mean much. If you play in 20+ tournaments a year and do reasonably well you have a shot. Heck, Dementivia even had a chance to be #1 recently. Which Williams' sister did Justine defeat in a Grand Slam final? I can't remember?

Hmmmm....boring...oddly I can't remember in the past few years too many women's finals being exactly riveting.....wait, perhaps it was that barn burner last year with Safina and Ivanovic? Or this year with Kunetsova and Safina? Or perhaps the ones with Mauresmo and Justine where she retired? Yeah....just top notch on the edge of your seat drama!

Their finals are no better or worse than any of the others.

"when was the last time the guys gave us such a great match???" (Samantha Elin)

You're kiddin' right ? How about those 5 SETTERS just a few days ago between Haas and Cilic and Murray vs Wawrinka, huh? Already forgot that 4 hours 3 setter epic between Nadal and Djokovic in Madrid too ?

Please, this was a great match exactly because women tennis is rarely that competitve (ie: Venus beating #1 Safina: 6-1, 6-0 !) The WTA is no more than high school tennis and doesn't even compare to the men's tour. You must be very young like most on this board, lol !

catrice2 : I wish Justine was still around. She was the only one with the talent AND mentality to give the Williams sisters a good challenge in the Slams. She beat Serena in 3 different Slams in 2007. In the US Open '07, she went through both Serena and Venus to win the tournament. I watched the semi-final against Venus and it was one of the greatest WTA matches I've ever seen. She's sorely missed, not just as a Slam contender, but also the contrast of style with the Williams sisters.

I finally read Safina's presser, and I'm just sorry about the reporter who chose to LIE (no, I will not call it twisting the truth or any other euphemism) when he/she referred to what Venus had said about the ranking system.

If Safina had been aware that there are people who think nothing of LYING to bait a player, she probably would not have gone on the defensive about how well she had done in all the Slams and how "they" (V&S, I guess) hadn't made the semis in the FO. Somebody should clue her in so that she doesn't fall for that stuff again.

Thanks for your 5:28, CK. Sometimes I think that, with certain folk, women's tennis in general and V&S in particular are, as you implied, in a no-win situation. But, it's OK; it's not a unversally held attitude, thank goodness.

Which leads me to mention to roGER that, unlike what he indicated, the Williams-Williams contest is likely to bring to the TV screens about 10 times as many casual fans as the "hardcore tennis fans" who, according to roGER, are the only ones who "care about in the outcome." My relatives and friends who are mostly casual tennis fans have been asking me since last Sunday if I thought V&S would make the final and who I thought would win if they did.

Things may be different in different parts of the world, but the USA TV ratings have indicated that a V&S final attracts more interest/viewers than almost any another other final, WTA or ATP. So, we shall see if it's any different this time.

it wasn't just the passing shot on match point by demetieva that was suspect, the return of the second serve off a ball serena just rolled in was weak...it was a perfect time and ball to run around and clock her big forehand for the win but elena elected to play it safe with a guided return down the middle...she was on the defensive thereafter, her moment gone

very similar to tommy haas against federer at the french...second serve to serve for the match and passive return

Many people have beaten V and Serena at a Grand Slam...Jill Craybas and that debacle with Venus and the point at Wimbledon...I said a GRAND SLAM Final...I don't think Justine ever beat one of them in a final..and I could be wrong. If I were bored I could go back and see which of them were absent in some of the GS she won...but I know the year Serena was playing well at the U.S Open against Capriati and the calls were so bad they gave her an apology and shot spot was created that Justine won that year....hmmmm. Venus pretty much had her way with Justine at Wimbledon...again, overall I don't think Justine's dominance was the reason they were not winning slams. If that were the case she would have a lot more than 7, with most of them being the French. She had a good run, but she never dominated all the slams to prevent the Williams' sisters from winning, that's just crazy.

I thought today's match between Elena and Serena was great tennis - both women hitting the ball cleanly - good serves - excellent returns and lots of drama
really good stuff
did not see the Venus match - does not sound like I missed much there
( sorry Dinara )

and hooray to the writer who finally had the nerve to put in print the condemnation of NBC's poor coverage of the most celebrated of tennis' slams

now , Leslie , I would not go so far as you did in denigrating the women's game
but Samantha - come on - you must be kidding right ?
Last years men's final was probably the greatest match ever played in tennis
and just this week - Murray survived a 5 set thriller against Stan under the roof
Roddick held on to beat a resurgent Hewitt , F Lo lost 10-8 in the fifth in THE FIRST ROUND of this very tournament
do you watch men's tennis at all? If you did , you could not make the statement that the men's game has not produced any good matches lately -
Those are just three of the awesome contests in the men's game this past 2 weeks
We could go to the French or Madrid and pick up at least 5 to 10 more that make a highlight reel .

Ruth, I noticed that baiting as well - that reported should have his/her credentials taken away. That was horrible.

tennisfan2 - thanks for the snippet of venus's presser. that was brilliant. i heart venus very much. :)

i am so bummed i missed the serena / elena match, it really does sound amazing. I'll check out espn, see if they do show it this evening.

i have to confess, i've never like seeing the williams play each other. i don't know if it the angst of playing each other, or its simply because they know each other's games SO well, they press each other too much, and neither can play their 'best' games.

I think last years final was the best i've seen them play each other, but there was still the awkward bits there. i think there always will be, but y'know, i'll be glued to the tv sat am!

"I finally read Safina's presser, and I'm just sorry about the reporter who chose to LIE (no, I will not call it twisting the truth or any other euphemism) when he/she referred to what Venus had said about the ranking system.

If Safina had been aware that there are people who think nothing of LYING to bait a player, she probably would not have gone on the defensive about how well she had done in all the Slams and how "they" (V&S, I guess) hadn't made the semis in the FO. Somebody should clue her in so that she doesn't fall for that stuff again."

Ruth - Yeah a number of people picked up that untrue comment from the reporter and mentioned it in the other thread. It is unfortunate but even in the face of that, Dinara still handled it as well as she could given she had no idea that the statement was untrue.

This is a quick note about something I think is going to blow-up in everyones face ( just came home from hospital in time too see
both Williams matches). Navatlova has opened her mouth once too often about all the noise the girls make, now it may be everyone but the news say's THE GIRLS. First of all she sits on no boards, does not play anymore and talks too much durning the games (with a number other things unliked). About 7yrs. ago I said too a friend gee the girls are so loud its killing my ears,however no one stopped it, now it is problely impossable too stop. If they wanted it stopped, they should have done it when everyone 1 rst started doing it-do they think it can be stopped now ! do they think that the girls will remember when they get ready to serve to say in thier thier minds, Oh thats right I am supposed to be silent. Why just the girls, do they think the girls will let the guys do anything they cannot do ! This is starting to become ugly, we are going too have the girls Protesting and refusing to play. It is all too late, they let it go on to long, Navatalova, please shut-up, I do not want to miss my Tennis games. Leave the whole thing along before you find youself on the nasty end of the stick. When it get's too much for me,exspecially certain players and you all know the ones I mean, I just turn the volume down for a few min. until I can get myself together then back up it goes. Tennis is completely different than when you played, everything about it includeing strengh. Get your monuth out of the game Please before all the girls get MAD!

Ruth @7.16,

Don't quite get the dig at Roger. Did he say anything that indicates that he had the US tennis-viewing demographic in mind?

Americans in general prefer (only) to see Americans play other Americans. Naturally they'd rather watch the Williams sisters play each other. Is that supposed to be an objective measure of something?

Ruth, it's the exact opposite here, nothing against the sisters as great players, but I don't know anyone who's at all interested in watching a Williams/Williams final. I think you must be talking from a US perspective but outside of there, in the rest of the world, I don't think there's the same interest.

To me it's a question of sameness of style between them, I enjoyed watching Justine taking either of them on, and also Hingis' battles with them, because their styles were so different. And who do I support? I cannot get passionate about one winning rather than another.

I don't get too enthused about watching one ball bashing Russian against another either for the same reason.

Amit - "roGER that" is a poster here. I think that was who Ruth was referring too and not Roger Federer.

JB,
The games will come back on at ESPN (206) if you have Direct but check your own ESPN. Enjoy

"but I know the year Serena was playing well at the U.S Open against Capriati and the calls were so bad they gave her an apology and shot spot was created that Justine won that year....hmmmm."

No, it was Kuznetsova who won that year. Henin may not have beaten Venus or Serena in a GS final, but beating either of them in the latter stages of any Slam is worthy of a lot of credit, and Henin managed it on all surfaces.

thanks tennisfan2.

Corrie,
You seem to be extra negative @ the William Sisters, Please give them thier dues. Right now they are the Best on grass, and I will certainly be watching. Serena wants this very badly and showed it last year by not being happy for her sister.It should be a dynomite game, but we all have much bigger problems with the Ladies then that small nothing. Navatalova is dertermined to create havoc with this noise thing (which @ at least 90 % of the
Ladies do) but say's nothing about the Guys. I don't know about you but (this cannot be), even my husband and I are spilt right down the middle-WE ARE EQUALS.

Who cares when or if they were beaten? No one will win everything all the time. My favorite, Monica Seles never won Wimbledon, so what? Hingis never won the French...so what? My issue is the implication that Justine was standing in the way of Venus and Serena winning Grand Slams. She may have beaten them at a slam, but so have many other players...and I don't see the poster mentioning any of them as the reason why Serena and Venus did not win slams. My point is that it is just silly to imply that it took Justine's retirement for them to win slams again, especially when they missed some of those due to injury. You can't win if you don't play. I do believe they managed a few when she was still playing. Serena was winning Australia and Venus was winning Wimbledon...and Maria, and a few Russian players were also winning. maybe Kuzzy did win that year, but it took an "incident" to knock Serena out that year.

For those whom think the matches are boring, etc...just don't watch! No one is forcing anyone to watch Venus and Serena. It is just strange to me, whether it is Venus and Serena or any other player why people would be so bitter about any player playing fairly and besting the rest of the field for the chance to play a slam final. It is not their fault that they are related and/or that they play a similar style...which itself is not strange since they have the same coach, were taught by the same people and have played each other most of their lives.

Perhaps some of you would be willing to tutor some of the other players on how to play more effectively on grass to prevent Venus and Serena from making finals? The truth is that both of them, Venus and Serena have played well on grass and deserve all the credit they get, as does any other player who plays their best, elevates their game and beats their opponents. Should they just retire so that someone else will have a chance?

I wonder if as many people were complaining about the Rafa/Roger finals?

"My point is that it is just silly to imply that it took Justine's retirement for them to win slams again, especially when they missed some of those due to injury."

catrice2 : I didn't mean to imply that. But the WTA has certainly missed something since her retirement, is all I'm saying. She was their only consistent challenger, who had a different style of play, and was fun to watch (unlike Sharapova).

Ross, what do you say about Justine Henin's serve then?

If you don't question hers, why are you questioning Serena's?

To anyone who is interested the Serena/LenaD match is now on ESPN. They are in the second set which is where they started the match. Another thing that a lot of people are also forgetting, for months we have been hearing talk about women's tennis being boring and dull. Today, we have a major sports network citing a women's match as an Instant Classic. I am sorry, but for all the talk that is being said, this is absolutely wonderful for women's tennis.
LenaD played some freaking awesome tennis in this match. Pity she had to lose. She was beating Serena from the baseline, but nobody closes like Serena Williams, not even Venus.

vc: actually it is charles that made the comment that stated that she was dominating and there was room for them again...not you. Obviously Justine had a good run, and it seems at one point she held 3 slams, but could not make good on Wimbledon.

Justine was an excellent player and is missed, as is Kim Clisters, but replying to poster charles I don't think it is solely the fact that Justine has retired that Venus and Serena are playing well, or why they did not win as many slams. Justine only has 7, so clearly other players were winning. I think even during that time there were times when they were playing well, and other times not so well, as with any player. I was never a Hingis fan, but I also miss Hingis and Seles and enjoyed their style of play.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

LOL Cayman Karen! I just pointed out the "instant classic" logo in the top right corner of the screen to my husband.

The Sisters were also mentioned yesterday and today on ESPN's countdown show (I think its called Pardon the Interruption). Glowing remarks about them!!

Amit: I think that your misunderstanding about which roGER I was referring to was explained by someone else, so I won't repeat that.

Amit and Corrie: Why are you asking me if I'm talking about the USA when I talk about interest in a Willams final? Wasn't it clear that I was doing so in this paragraph that I'll re-post for you?

"Things may be different in different parts of the world, but the USA TV ratings have indicated that a V&S final attracts more interest/viewers than almost any another other final, WTA or ATP. So, we shall see if it's any different this time."

Or, did you think that "USA TV ratings" meant TV ratings from the universe? Soorry if I was clear enough.

@TennisFan2 - it is a very good day to be a fan of women's tennis. What is even more fascinating is that these 2 women are what you would call old in tennis years. They are not the glamour girls of the Tour, they are the backbone of the Tour. They are the heart and soul of the WTA. They are the ones who have given credibility to a Tour that is in dire need of it and I think it is very sad that all some people here and on other blogs find the time to do is just to denigrate these women.

Ruth, I caught that lie too in Safina's press conference where they imply that Venus had said something about her being#1 without a slam. They were baiting Dina to say something bad about the Williamses so they could then take it back to them. They love to stir up trouble between the players. Venus isn't responsible for what Serena said about her being the best.Venus was very gracious and even defended Dina and told the reporter that he should respect Dina. It will be interesting to see if Lena can continue to serve like she did on a consistent basis.

Lois, you misread what I said. I simply said there is no interest here, in any of my tennis following friends, in watching a Williams/Williams final. We're not in the US and there's not the same interest. In my case, I prefer more a contrast in styles.

It's nothing against them, I'm a HUGE admirer of them both as players, they're way above everyone else in the field. Watching any of the other current top players against each other, as in the French final, would be worse because they're not as good as the Williams.

But as a contest, I don't see that it has the contrast it used to have when skilled all court players, like Henin and Hingis, took them on.

I like both the Williams' so also, it's hard to get passionate about one beating the other.

Yes, they are the backbone Cayman Karen and there is certainly something to be said for their longevity.

It was beyond annoying when Mary Carillo was harping on them for how they've managed their careers but they've proven everyone wrong and we get to enjoy them well into their "old age."

I think this is also why BJ King has not pushed too hard about IW in public (who knows what's been said privately). I think she truly gets their value to the WTA and also to US tennis. They also understand BJ's conundrum and do what they can to help her (like the Madison Square Garden event - although they were paid well for that).

Frazzle all morning (but what a great match) during Serena/Elena but won't frazzle on the 4th of July (may the best Sister win - we can just enjoy the match). The American women are showing their independence and strength again in London.