JohnC Well one could say the same for Rafa in 2009

Hello all!!!

It might be fair to say Rafa and his great results in 2008 was just not because other players were playing badly either.Though sometimes people dont wish to acknowledge this fact lol!

Hola RG well we will know tomorrow the all important draw

Nervous are you lol!

Morning, everyone. :)

I think we will likely get to read more pieces on different players/issues after the season-end.

Jewell I thought we got this all year round?

Well gives us something to saviour in the off season

AM: Hey there. Yeah, would be good if Nole is in Rafa's half, so that they would not face in the semis.

yes, I just meant that at the moment we're heading to the WTFs so pieces on the top players are most likely, I guess, I wasn't trying to criticise. :)

Tennis is fun ... its a strange Catch 22 that so many of the best players of the sport have lost their love of the game by the time they reach the peak of their ability. It's always nice when you see them appreciating each others' game, and I think Roger is a true example of someone who loves the game and seeing it played well (by himself or others).

Jewell Have you changed your moniker again?

Or have I not noticed,anyway I agree.Its coming to a point here I wont be posting cause I am getting a bit sick and tired of the whole thing

Maybe I need your "special tea"

Rg Nadal If I hear Cup Cakes draws or things being rigged I am out for sure lol!

"Well one could say the same for Rafa in 2009"

One could, but it wouldn't be true. Apart from the fact he had to skip Wimby, his rivalry position vis Roger in 2009 is little changed from what it was in 06-08. In fact it's been remarkably consistent. What changed was Roger's slump, and then a partial resurgence this year. The fact the top slot is yet to be nailed down is clearly reflected in that table (as is Rafa's YE #1 in 2008).

The reason this kind of analysis works so well is because no one else has been in the top two slots since 2005 (apart from a momentary Murray aberration), so looking at tournaments both have entered is an accurate condensation of the broader picture.

Thanks John for your stats,whatever.

Wouldn't mind seeing a piece on say, Davydenko. I don't think Pete has done one on him recently.

Streams You havent posted for a while.Good to see you on board.

VC Yes he did do one a little while ago

I wish he would do one on Borg,who still has the best percentage overall stats.Considering he retired at 26 onone has come near him on that one.

If anybody else retires I like see articles on those players even if Pete doesn't like them or where they come from. Another good article would be players that are returning from injuries who have been out for most of the season.

Hi streams! How are you?

*hugs AM*

I wish I had a special magic tea for stopping Fedal wars, LOL. I love talking about Fedal - I haven't caught up with all the posts yet though - but the hate and the ridiculousness that comes out on both sides is something I find really hard to deal with. I don't know why I can't just scroll past.

AA What about David's return,I will be inetested to see how he goes next year.He wont be defending his Medibank title.I love his game.He on his day has beaten the top 3.I hope his hip is ok

I remember some stuff about Kolya around Shanghai, but then I think much of the focus was on Rafa.

Hm...want to catch up on JohnC's comments but I don't understand numbers...especially not before 6.30am, sigh.

Jewell Thanks for the Hugs

Maybe you can start working on a magic potion hey lol!

aussiemarg : I must have missed it then. I'm not sure, but after the Shanghai tournament was there one mainly focusing on Rafa? Don't remember.

"I wish he would do one on Borg,who still has the best percentage overall stats.Considering he retired at 26 onone has come near him on that one."

Don't you think part of the reason for the percentage records is the fact that he retired so early, before physical ageing?

AM, yeah, it has probably been linked here previously and read by most. There has been a slew of articles lately due to the coming WTF, that I think I have gotten confused.

"It is, but his rivalry with Rafa is surely a central part of the narrative."

JohnC,

True. Even if one wants to talk of other things, it will eventually drift to Fedal. That's how popular these two are. But this is also the watercooler post as Pete says, so I guess, anything goes.

VC Sorry you were right on Kolya,perhaps Pete could do more or a indepth piece on him

Well I would love to see him perform further.No I dont think it was about the physical,cause he was the fittest athlete I have ever seen,noone has come near him,even today.He said to Mac at Wimby 08 he had lost the desire to compete.Quite frankly there was a lot of things personal going on outside his life at that time.He was such a private person.I would love he if would tell all.Though I dont believe he will.I want to know why he judged Wet Tee Shirt Competions for one lol!

AM David will be playing some exos in South America through December with Canas (who I think will retire at the end of the year), Moya and couple of other players. Hopefully I will be able to keep up to date with the play etc.

AA Thanks for that

I did post above,Casey and Alicia paired up in doubles and won their match in WA.

Good morning,

Kind of ironic. Verdasco got yesterday a trophy as best Madrileño (from Madrid) athlete of 2008. He cleaned his language for this ceremony and said that going to the WTF is the dream of a lifetime.

http://www.marca.com/2009/11/17/tenis/1258467531.html

Translation: http://tinyurl.com/yh5gnew

The thing is, Suze, my interest is not in combat but in accuracy. And indeed as I've been putting together numbers today, and kinda thinking out loud in this thread, I've realised it's unfair to Rafa to throw in his records for 2003-4, when his ranking was fluctuating between the 80s and the 30s. So by excluding those, I say we are now looking at 62 tournaments entered by both, of which Roger has won 25, Rafa 19 and 18 by neither player. That covers the full five years of their rivalry, with simply this YEC to be added.

I thought I had posted the news about those two earlier today for you. Well I intended to but I have been busy at my day job. I hope Casey's shoulder does hold up because she is such a nice girl also from my home state and follows the same footy team as me. I think though she needs to lose a couple of kilos and be fitter.

Hi Zenggi

He also said some very weird things about getting married

He said he was Crazy enough?

Well he does drive a Yellow Porshe and wear Giraffe tee shirts

I rest my case.

"I want to know why he judged Wet Tee Shirt Competions for one lol!"

I might be able to hazard a guess at that one. :) Actually it sounds very Boris Becker-ish.

I think it would be fair to say that Roger slumped (for whatever reason) at the beginning of the year in 2008, and as I recall Rafa didn't do anything title-wise till the clay season.

But I suppose as always it's a combination of one person's level dropping, and other people improving - both Djokovic and Rafa had been improving since 2007, despite Rafa's title drought - which is interesting to think about in light of now - and I suppose one could go back to Canas and Murray in 2006, as well as Fed's matches with Rafa, to find ways of playing and possibly beating Roger.

I also think that losing those two GS finals against Rafa - Wimbledon and AO 09 - didn't help Federer's confidence for a few tournaments after each; although I suppose one has to think about 2008's very compressed schedule and mono after-effects, and then the back problems in early 2009, too.

Gosh AM I didn't post it but I meant to. Gee I hate working sometimes. Please refer to me as bobblehead in the future.

AA Sorry I didnt see it,I had to go and get a passport photo for Medibank Yikes! I loathe having my photo taken,regardless.

Morning, zenggi. :)

Whatever Borg's motivation for abruptly quitting, it still means his w/l percentage requires an asterisk, since you cannot do a fair comparison with players who have had a full career.

This is possible. One could for instance calculate his w/l for his best five years and do the same for any player you wanted to compare him with. This would level the playing field with "slow starters" and/or "ageing champions".

AM,

I know, I heard the radio interview posted by Mr. X. Fer will have a hard time finding a woman who won't make him crazier than he already is (his words).

I'm going to work. Gales, rain and traffic jams. What else is new?

Well Borg has the stats,regardless.I am not getting into anything on Borg.

Hi jewell,

Just a few hours and all the frenzy and frazzle about the draws will lead to another silly discussion about luck and conspiracies.
I'd say that it doesn't matter. He who wins, deserves it.

I don't have a problem with Nando driving a yellow porsche at all, in Perth we have guys driving around in flash cars so it makes no difference to me.

zenggi Well makes me wonder why Anna broke up with him,scary thoughts indeed.

See...I think Dasco will almost attract more women with that statement; think of all the girls who will just want to rescue him from his own craziness and give him stability, etc!

AA That was a joke really,cause his Tee shirt also happens to be yellowish.

Couldn't agree more, zenggi.

Jewell Methinks they need to be on Valium 24/7

AA,

In Madrid a lot of people drive Porsche. The color of it is another thing and yellow is boyish and tacky. But Fer is young. He will mature and change to the Cayenne model. Same with women :)

Zenggi: Hi. Verdasco cleaned his lang? Does he use the uncleaned version usually?

jewell: Hola. How many more hours for the draw?

Hey all,

*so frazzled about the WTF draw*

JohnC --I think there's a mistake with the 2008 stats --i think Rafa won 6, rather than 5 tourneys in which they were both entered (Monte Carlo, Hamburg, RG, Wimby, Toronto & the Olympics).

Agree with Jewel that you can't just look at the stats without context.

zenggi Well I am all for the Cayenne model

Two hours and 45 minutes, I think, rg...I will be at work though. :)

GB Goodness me

L.Rubin has set up a Rafa Frazzle line remember

Though you will hear Tims voice at the end of it

Dial at your own peril,also there is Phantom Of The Opera going on as well.

Buenos días, rg.

I've only spoke to Fer once and everything I've read and heard of him was always polite and nice. It came as a not so nice surprise to me the words he used ON RADIO about Brooke Shields.

I think he was in a car while the interview was made (by phone) because you hear other people's voices in the background. Maybe he tried to be "funny" but it came way too harsh and vulgar. Totally unnecessary language for a professional while talking to the media.

Lucky me I dont start work till 11pm,I will still be here.

AM: well, I should probably be first in line for such a hotline, but fear the combo of Tim & Phantom would only make me more stressed:)

Sorry for the typos. Not yet awake.

I'll try to join later from work. Bye.

"But I suppose as always it's a combination of one person's level dropping, and other people improving"

Indeed, Jewell. The fact the number of tournaments won by neither doubled in 2008 indicates precisely that many others were taking advantage of Roger's slump. He lost to (in chronological order): Nole, Murray, Fish, Roddick, Nadal, Stepanek, Nadal, Nadal, Nadal (those three all clay, of course), Simon, Karlovic, Blake, Murray, Blake, Murray, Simon. Annus horribilis.

btw, there's one typo in my table (of course!), so I'll repost:
Year Fed Nadal Neither Total
============================
05___6___2____1______9
06___7___4____1_____12
07___7___4____4_____15
08___1___5____8_____14
09___4___4____4_____12

Jewel & aussiemarg, thanks for your greetings. I'm very well thanks, currently visiting aussiemarg's lovely land right now in fact ... heading back to Asia soon

Although it has to be said, if they are going to rig the draw (which they're not), it would be most likely to be fixed in Murray's favour, no?

Hi GB!

I'm not really frazzled about the draw, anything can happen once they start to play, as we've seen this year.

I really loathe Porsche Cayennes. *rant alert* I live in an area with very narrow lanes, and those things are just too wide for the roads. Plus they are always driven by women on the school run, who are late and drive too fast - I've lost count of the number of times one of them has taken a corner ridiculously fast and sent me into the hedge to avoid a crash. Not to mention that it is *always* Cayennes that park on the double yellow lines in the village...GRR. If ever I get to be in charge of the world, I will ban them outright!

Gb What are you stressed about? lol!

Look I hold no high expectations for Rafa at this tournament ok

I just want him to be competitive and remain injury free

Though Roger fans fear him lol!

The man who they should fear is Novak,he is the player at the moment who has the mometum and is playing well.Shades of last year remember.

streams Are you in Sydney at the moment?

AM - no Queensland

zenggi: Thank you. Yeah, very true.

jewell: ok..What is it you are hoping for from the draw?

Jewell Remember what I said

No Cup Cake Draws or Draw Fixing ok lol!

jewell,

You should see the amount of Cayennes here. Maximum speed allowed is 120 km. Mostly 70 or 50 km (in normal roads) and 30 km. in the cities.
Just the one mountain in the corner with Belgium and Germany. Who needs those monsters?

Bye.

GB, I've excluded all Olympics so I can get annualised consistency of tournaments.

Ooh...beautiful stormy day outside, not raining yet though. Wonderful purple and grey light.

One of those three Nadal losses must be on grass, JohnC? Or are you trying to write the "Triumph at Twilight" out of history? ;-)

Did he really have two losses to Blake? I don't remember him losing to Nadal before the clay season either, although my memory is pretty awful.

AM: I'm stressed about Rafa's chances to be competitive ATM, and what'd do to his confidence if he isn't.

Streams Are you on holiday there? you should have come to Sydney

Ok what are cayennes?

GB I have been reading what Rafa has said about being beaten just recently

He said Just because you lose,that dosent mean you lose your confidence?

Players look at things with much more perspective than us fans ok

Could you imagine a player getting Frazzled everytime he or she lost? they might as well retire.Also losing you get to know more what you should do.

My coach always gave me my b/point stat sheet first,regardless if I won or lost.That was a eye opener to see how I really went in a match.

AM yes holiday - rellies live up here

I don't think I'm hoping for anything from the draw, really. They so rarely work out the way they're meant to.

I will start frazzling on the day of the first match, LOL...of course I'm not sanguine about Rafa's form, but it's not as if he's ever done brilliantly at the WTFs/YEC/TMC or in this part of the season...indoor HCs are his worst surface. So in terms of what Rafa does at the tournament, I'm not really expecting much anyway. What I would like to see most of all from him is continued improvement; if he wins one match and keeps #2 I'll be happy.

of course I would be happier if he won all his matches and the tournament, but that seems unlikely to me. :)

http://tinyurl.com/yggteze

Vassallo Arguello saying he's tried drugs but not ones that were illegal/would show up in tests.

Most significantly, he does seem to suggest that he thinks an Andreesque coverup would still happen now:

"From then on, I feel that this clearly shows what many of us think and have no way to prove: If one of the top tens does something illegal, the first thing to protect is the business"

jewell, there are in fact 4 Nadal entries in my list -- three clay and Wimby. I should have written "(three of those on clay, of course)". Sorry for the ambiguity, but I'm pretty sure the list is correct. Blake got a w/o in Paris.

Streams you should be glad you are not in Perth as it is terrible weather. Rain and possible storms this afternoon. It has definitely gone back to winter weather.

streams Well I hope you had a great time in Queensland,next time come to Sydney great place too.I will be going to Melbourne for the AO next year,for the womens and mens finals.

oops sorry for the double post

AA its just another type of Porshe

AM: definitely agree the players handle losses better than us (LOL - can you imagine the locker room scenes if they didn't?)

Rafa's always recovered his confidence long term, but I do remember him saying at times that he had lacked confidence when he went through slumps. I do think that he's lacking confidence at the moment and he'd lose even more if he had easy losses here.
(Although hopefully he could rebuild some in DC).

I forgot the withdrawal in Paris. Cheers, JohnC.

I too would be content if Rafa keeps his no.2 ranking. Since he did not play last year, in terms of points he has nothing to lose. That is a +ve to look at. I somehow think Murray would be no.3 at the end of the tournament.

I too would be content if Rafa keeps his no.2 ranking. Since he did not play last year, in terms of points he has nothing to lose. That is a +ve to look at. I somehow think Murray would be no.3 at the end of the tournament.

Short of someone doing a spectacular meltdown, I don't expect the YEC to produce and ranking change among the top 5.

"any ranking"

Rg Nadal Murray to be no 3 at the end of this tournament?

Oh I forgot he is your tip,sorry proceed.

Here are my draw preferences:
Roger's Group: Murray, Davydenko, Verdasco
Rafa's Group: Djokovic, Del Potro, Soderling

Roddick's withdrawal changed the last 3 positions, correct?
So now it's 5. Del Potro, 6. Davydenko, 7. Verdasco, 8. Soderling
Davydenko has moved up to #6 and is mow paired for division with Delpo, no.

Does anyone else have draw preferences they'd like to share?

Tigress I am scared at the thought if Roger loses to anyone

What you might do lol!

My lips are sealed

Call the exo committee, 'cos Borg wants to play Rafa.

[Q: What do you think of Juan Martin Del Potro?

Bjorn: He’s been playing well the whole year. I think most people thought Roger would win that final, but he (Del Potro) played really well the whole tournament and he deserved to win it. To play that well in your first Grand Slam final is a really great effort.

Q: If you could play anyone in history when you were at your peak level, who would you like to play?

Bjorn: I think it would be fun for me at my best to have played Rafael Nadal. Maybe on clay! We play a pretty similar game so it would have been nice. I would have liked to have played Roger as well. Who would have won? I have no idea!]

http://www.atpchampionstour.com/qa_borg1.html

JohnC,

Yes, that's why I enjoy reading your posts. You have your favourites but you are rational and not the overly fawning, drooling or delusional fan as some are.

AM: lol

My group prefs:
Rafa, Nole, Verdasco, Potro
Roger, Soderling, Davy, Murray

OMG yes please yes please yes please to Borg-Rafa exhibition!

Greenhopper Well that would be a match made in heaven

Though I really would prefer to see them in their prime,to be a fair contest.

Well thats a never now

The Mens Barclays ATP World Tour draw will be announced @ 9:15
(6-hrs ahead) this morning in London. (3:15 A.M. EST). 15-mins from now. If you log on Barclays ATP World Tour you will see the draw @ 3:15 AM.

I think London is 5 hours ahead of TW, so it'll be an hour and a bit from now.

So the draw's going to be show live?

Thanks Jewell, I got my timing mixed-up. 4:15 AM EST

I think the website says it's at 9.45 am London time, rather than 9.15

Gb Thats about 8.15pm our time in Sydney

Borg_Rafa would be awesome. But it sounded to me more like Borg was saying he'd have liked to have played Rafa when they were both at their peaks, rather than he'd like to do it now. But who knows.

Thanks AM. Not long now then.

GB I think that is our time cant be 100% sure,keep getting different times.

Master Ace said 9.45 the other day but it might easily have changed.