Sherlock I always preferred Mr Jeckell anyway.

Just saying.

AB,

If I am not wrong, the rule book specifies how the time is distributed. I remember reading it...and if i search I will find that rule book. I hate looking at that rule book because it seems to be only there for some obscure purpose that eludes me.

But from what i remember, it has some specifics on it.

I would also wish you would not generalize anybody who criticizes timing issues as anti-Nadalian...he is not the only one who does it. If I criticize Roger, am I anti-Fed ?

*clinging on to my official Fed-fan card as Ruth tries to snatch it away*

"All in all, if chumps do their job with the rules that are already in place, it's not an issue. "

+1000

And moreover, it will deter the rest of the players too who think they have a chance to get away with it.

Sherlock: the ChUmps *can't* do it, that's why it's not done. ChImps, now, that's another matter all together.

ChUmp's discretion to stop the clock for pigeon poop, toupees flying onto the court or any other myriad things that occur on open unprotected courts. ChUmp's play, Sherlock, ChUmp's play.

I really don't think it will take long for it to move to the back of conscious awareness, subliminal, ya know.

Heh, heh, CL, you fell into my trap. Too easy. And I see you play an aggressive brand of futbol, no? And though you and ladyjulia do go on about fair play, I won't whine to the ref about my bleeding shin.

Player will always "test" to see what boundaries say a Umpire has.

You still the same thing happening on the football fields etc

Nothing new there.

CL, I don't know, but I'm not a good person to ask. :)

The timing stuff doesn't bother me in the slightest. Roger, like Andre used to, goes too fast my taste many times. :) I like to appreciate the previous point and have a bit more anticipation and drama on big points.

But as many will attest, I'm rather odd sometimes. :)

"I'm rather odd sometimes"

Biting tongue big time

Though seeing Sherlock is not well

I too have feelings

Well just for this moment anyway.

AB, ok, well, if it comes to pass, we'll see. :)

The first time Roger and Rafa are playing, and one pauses for the wind so the chair restarts the clock, but later in the match, the other pauses, and the clock is not restarted, we'll see how that goes. There's a whole lotta discretion used right now as far as big points, hot temps, etc., that will go away instantly.

oh man, rules cause too many questions, we just shouldn't have any

"While I can see how a clock takes some pressure off the chair, the worst part to me is that now with every point, ESPN will have the stupid little clock in the corner, and there will be so much focus and chatter on this topic, it will make our heads spin. Instead of focusing on the next big point, Gilbert or P-Mac will be counting down the "shot clock". Ugh."

When I watch basketball, the commentators don't drone on about the shot clock every possession. Now I know people will be tempted to point out how terrible tennis commentators are, but take note: BILL. FREAKING. WALTON.

Ruth,

Thank you for your response. I totally agree with you. And I suspect too that these top players sneak a peak at a final even if they lost and they are pissed that they missed their chance to be in that final, that they failed to win. To me, this does not prove they don't love the game etc. I am a bit of a sore loser myself, so I understand:)

snowdrop Welcome to my world I am also a "sore loser"

At least we are honest about it.

Grant: I see you didn't get AM's memo to CL on use of caps.

But, yeah, that's my point, shot clock in bball fades into the background, what with all the blatant traveling, fouling, and double dribbling and sometimes drooling that is rampant in the game.

AM: impressed with your restraint re Sherlock telling on self. By "getting rid of net cord" you *do* mean, Let Go Lets, Go Let's Go! Right?

And lastly, Sherlock: I'm willing to add some potential excitement to the newly instituted service clock by introducing the Dead ChUmp Switch. If one of the more, shall we say, out-of-shape ChUmps should have a health emergency after clambering back onto the stand, the clock starts automatically but blinks in bright red (instead of yellow) which means, the paramedics have 20 seconds to treat the ChUmp and carry him/her off the court.

"I see you didn't get AM's memo to CL on use of caps."

I love AM but if anyone gets to be TW Typing Czar it, um, isn't her.

Aussiemarge,

Let's shake hands on that :)

They don't drone about the shot clock every possession because the ball gets jacked up within a few seconds on many occasions. I doubt the tennis serving time distribution is as all over the map as NBA possession time.

AB I hate net cords full stop

I mean they stuff you up

My tennis coach always told be in playing tennis the idea is for you to play as if the net cord wasnt there

Think about that it makes sense

Ok, got it AM. Do you want to make the top tape thinner? I do not care. It's far more of a factor and frustration in volleyball.

What's your opinion on the Let? I hate it. Ridonkulous time waster.

AB Agree complete Time Waster

Gotta go work out. OT, but I ordered some Generation UCAN. I can't wait to add it to my workouts and cardio routine and see if I notice any difference. Maybe I will get Mardy's pretty lady legs. I do wear the low socks already.

Bye AM, TW Typing Czarina.

"They don't drone about the shot clock every possession because the ball gets jacked up within a few seconds on many occasions. I doubt the tennis serving time distribution is as all over the map as NBA possession time."

Ok, that describes 5% of the possessions in which they don't drone about the shot clock. Now to explain the other 95%. Oh yeah! It's because there are other things to talk about!

Or there's football, where the play clock isn't discussed onless a) a team has to waste a time out or get hit with delay of game or b) a team runs the hurry-up offence.

[Ultimately I don't think a tennis clock is going to happen, because the sport tends to be fairly anti-change. I'd also be fine with the umps just being told to do their damn jobs and enforce the rules. I just happen to be of the opinion that an unenforced rule is even worse than no rule at all, that being too slow can be hazardous to a sport's popularity, and that 'if we pass this rule we will have to think about how to implement it, let's go home and nap instead because i'm lazy' is not a very good argument. And I say that as someone who is very lazy indeed.]

AB - hah! Why is it that I don't feel trapped? Nice try though. We used to have a TW phrase for posters who lumped all posters who shared opinion A into a large group of posters B. What was that word? Oh I know...'Lumpers.'

Welcome to the club and be prepared to take your lumps. Want a band aid for your shin?

Sherlock - well see, its the drugs that have you addled, because the problem then is, as this endless loop that would be me, rolls on, when is it TOO** much time? Ever? A player can suck wind for a minute or so until he finds his calm center?

And as for Andre A and Fed going too quickly - I think you could add Roddick to that list....tell me about it! I so wish Roger wouldn't rush his serve the way he does sometimes when the going gets rough. But, rather ironically for purposes of the larger discussion, the rules reads it is 'at the pace of the server.' And heck, half the time that doesn't even rule. Do we really need to discuss the incident of the 'Queen' and 'the hand'? I think not. But the pace of the server has to fall within the time between points. See? I am just trying to help.

I know this is tricky with the otc meds and all, but try and focus. ;-)))

** Grant said I could AM!!!!

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this one, Grant. The NBA comparison doesn't seem particularly apt to me, but Andrew's mileage my vary. One possesssion in the NBA is a drop in the bucket, but a point penalty (I'm assuming that's where we get in pretty short order on the penalty scale?) in tennis is a quarter to a break.

CL, to what part of what I've said today are you responding with the endless loop? I'm confuzzled, as is my natural state. I'm fine with the umpires issuing some warnings, penalties, etc., early on to set the tone, and I believe the problem will go away on its own.

I'm not understanding how the same umpires who won't enforce this rule are going to be the umpires who start the clock as soon as they possibly can to start enforcing the rule.

I am suprised nobody has mentioned ways he can still dominate by crushing all those guys, including Nadal. I belive that his partnership with Paul Anecone can be an asset if he listened to the guy. Federer demonstrated in his earlier rounds that he can easily dismantle foes by employing the aggressive game that Paul Anecone is so known to have successfully implimented in Pete Sampras' game.
It was a real joy to see him float around the whole court toying with players while breaking them down. His style of game is designed for that. But he is human and when it came to the matches that mattered, deeper into the draw, he tightened up and reverted back to his baseline, "wait till the opponent errs", game.
With his legs slowing down with age, he cannot afford to be chasing balls down with the much younger guys with fresh legs. He needs to master that aggresive game, use the whole court and use all his tools. Because, frankly, nobody comes close to what he can do off both wings.
Maybe even a change of racquet to slighly more forgiving racquet. Even Sampras, in his book, admits that a racquet change could have prolonged his career or given him a better look at the French Open.
Just a thought. Roger Federer is a great tennis player, hands down and can still do damage. He just needs to think now and change things around, instead of rlying on his amazing talent.

Sherlock - yes, I am very familiar with the Island of Confuzzlement. So, I guess what I would like to see, bestest of anything, is umpires, with or without giant on court clocks, to actually enforce the rules that already exist. Or if they are too busy not calling lines, there could be a separate time czar on court who just watches the clock. I volunteer!

(Back on Steve's thread, Lady J suggested a system where after the match players would be fined depending on how many second, cumulatively, they exceeded the time allowed. Give how wealthy many of the top guys are, I think we should just have them wear a Scarlet Clock instead of a Scarlet Letter. though any such regulation/fine would involve a fair amount of heavy math lifting...time over the shot clock, minus time under the shot clock. ?? Maybe we should just taser the laggards. THAT would move things along. And the time czar wields the taser.)

Well, I have to congratulate Bodo for restraining himself for almost a whole month from writing this article which I saw coming as soon as Nadal won the Open!:)
To me it's the ultimate proof of just how dirty and inhumane the job of a journalist can be. The really perverse thing about this is that Fed (and most other top sportsmen in similar position of success) never claimed to be the GOAT - it was the press that did that! And now, they try to make him resposible for failing to prove what THEY have been saying about him...
There is one conforting thought though: in 20 years form now noone will know who Bodo was but everyone will remember the player who could play an inspiring and utterly beautiful tennis.

A shot clock? People actually think that's a good idea?

Taking discretion away from the umpires is a bad, and probably wildly impracticable, idea. Think the umps are abusing their discretion? Get better umps, or train the umps better.

FWIW, I didn't think the pace of the USO final was slow enough to warrant intervention from the chair (as opposed to, say, the Madrid '09 SF).

I pity Rafa if he comes on court and CL is the taser-wielding time czar. :)

"Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this one, Grant."

I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death my right to tell you you're wrong ;)

"One possesssion in the NBA is a drop in the bucket, but a point penalty (I'm assuming that's where we get in pretty short order on the penalty scale?) in tennis is a quarter to a break."

Obviously they're different sports, but I'd say one possession in a close game means about as much as one point in a close match, with the caveat that the lost possession in basketball is more likely to actually factor into the final score.

"I'm fine with the umpires issuing some warnings, penalties, etc., early on to set the tone, and I believe the problem will go away on its own."

Same here, but at this point it seems quite clear that the umps _aren't_ fine with that, or else they'd actually do it more often.

He he, Grant. :)

"Same here, but at this point it seems quite clear that the umps _aren't_ fine with that, or else they'd actually do it more often."

Yeah, that's an interesting phenomenon. If I had no life, I'd be curious to watch a replay of the USO final, just to keep count of the times we're dealing with. Might it be that TW is a bit too rigid? :)

Sherlock,

not to be nitpicking....but players wouldn't complain about it if it wasn't an issue. And former players too.

Though count me in as i have no idea why the umpires don't do anything. I think they are afraid of all the finger pointing and things said to them by players and being asked if they actually went to high school or not. And now players will just say "if player A can do it, why not me?".

"Might it be that TW is a bit too rigid? :)"

TW needs to find a comfy chair, light up a fat one, and just ... chill, man.

"Might it be that TW is a bit too rigid? :)"

Certainly possible, but I think it'd be good for the sport to speed things up anyway, because eventually all the people with attention spans are going to die off.

"because eventually all the people with attention spans are going to die off"

Grant..please, I spilled my coffee.

"If I had no life, I'd be curious to watch a replay of the USO final"

Well I guess you're going to then!

"TW needs to find a comfy chair, light up a fat one, and just ... chill, man."

Next blog entry title: Ice Cream is Awesome

Grant, lol. I was hoping you wouldn't pick up on that. :)

"because eventually all the people with attention spans are going to die off"

There is so much truth in that, it's scary.

CPM, he he. Yes, this is what we do without much tennis going on. :)

"but players wouldn't complain about it if it wasn't an issue. And former players too."

Ladyjulia, sorry, but I'm all confused again. Can you explain more and help my drugged brain? :)

Sherlock,

I can...but are the drugs going to help?

I was talking about timing, umps and rigidity of TW.

Well, Grant, ice cream really *is* awesome, and I don't see what's wrong with saying so.

What were we saying about short attention spans again?

Drugs don't help? :)

It says right on the package that it will help all my symptoms, and they wouldn't lie.

"but players wouldn't complain about it if it wasn't an issue. And former players too."

So you are talking about some players complaining that other players are taking too long?

Sherlock,

I'm sure the drugs will help with the symptoms, but I've heard Halperidol has some pretty nasty side-effects.

Sherlock,

Does it say "all" the symptoms? All? No, of course they wouldn't lie...

Must try it out sometime...:-)

Yup. Some players complaining that other players taking too long. And former players. Actually, former player.

Well, I'm outta here. I advise everyone who gets ESPN to watch tonight's 30 for 30 installment, 'Into The Wind'.

Is everyone on the new post?

Don't forget when Nadal wasn't able to defend his Wimbledom crown in 2009, he stated that he "WOULD NOT" be watching the Wimbledon final...but all in all a good article...let'sjust hope 2011 brings us some goodies to help fuel the ROGER/RAFA debate...

You know Graham, reading the previous posts might make your own post sound more intelligent. Snowdrop posted twice that in interviews she quoted Rafa said he DID watch the Wimbledon final.

Hey Pete, how about some 'asterisk' post ? What ? Rafa winning USO without having to face the place owner (Fed), his successor (DelPo), young guns (LeSod, Berdych), and there's no asterisk to it ? Guess we'll see if he can repeat the feat in real life...
"The discussion is less about who’s the GOAT, something that can’t be definitively determined anyway, than about which guy is better, period."
Heu. That helps. If you could just remind us the criteria for 'better'. Of course it is very clear that you mean 'Rafa' is better. C'mon, just look at him, winning it all, praised by his peers, while Rog is going down.
In fact GOAT or 'better' is the same discussion, and no one will be able to close it. It's all about taking position on transparent principles.
Mine are: better in any area (not only sports) is the one who
-makes it look effortless and easy, who immediately, almost physically, inspires awe. Makes you want to be in his shoes (or experience the same kind of artistry in your own field).
-takes his field to another level, leaving a clear print in history. first of all I think Nadal owes his level in part to Fed, forcing him to improve every area of his game, during his years as n.2. then in terms of innovation and creativity there's probably not much to discuss. Nadal has a complete game and is super-tough. But in his style and tactics he is little more than a Müster++. Today's style of play is a response to Fed's domination
Tennis fans and non-fans (even more) can only pray the next Fed is coming up (what about a description of Dimitrov's style of play rather than just listing his titles ?) to keep the fire burning. And enjoy his remaining good ones.
Come on, who wants to re-watch one of Nadal's matches (except against Fed) ? Even you Nadal fans ? How many youtubes on Nadals best shots, replays etc. ?

The GOAT discussion should not be at all around number of titles and so on. Even if for some reason Fed had not managed to be so consistent and efficient in winning, you'd have to give it to him, and his peers acknowledge it. No one has ever been so impressive, dominant, above-it-all, than Fed playing his best.

WHEN ROGER WILL BOUNCE BACK?

YEAH, AND WHEN HE WILL FIGURE OUT NADAL? ;-)

LeBen, take it easy, take it easy. That is your opinion as Roger fan but remember this, tennis doesn't start and finish with him, no way!!!

Who cares if Rafa or Roger have watched or not the finals that they couldn't participated, I don't see any problem with that. What and why is the argument?

I'm glad to have visited your blog and good to know you! I find it interesting and informative.

Was I the only person who didn't buy the "I'm not going to watch the final" line? I watched that press conference, too, but that just seemed disingenuous. Sure he wanted Nadal to win, they are friends. But Rafa's no fool - he is good friends with Novak, too.

I am almost afraid to read all six pages of comments. Mainly because I am so tired of Naderer wars, and I find the new Rafa-Nole rivalry more compelling at this point.

Mark my words! Federer will strike back with a vengeance!

I think really a "Fedal" type of banter here is moot, because they have only played TWO times in two years they just havent squared off enough to gauge their form against each other...

what happened is that Federer at 29 and a father and husband has finally slipped and started losing Slam matches to former underlings, and nadal is lapping up the spoils, and lets be honest, Del Potro being injured all year helped, too!

Nadal has a 5000 point lead in the rankings, bigger domination than Federer ever had, is this exciting or dull now? Is there any young genius out there we dont know about? I hope so...

As a Roger Federer fan, it has been hard to witness the losses and listen to everyone talk about his decline. We are so accustomed to seeing Roger win everything that we expect it and when he doesn't the talk starts about his decline. But these days the competition has become much tougher -- making it harder and harder to win tournaments. Roger's not getting that much worse as a player, everyone else is getting so much better. And who's to say how long Rafa's body hold up to the torture that he puts it through. His carrer might not be very long.

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This is a well thought out piece by Bodo. I fervently hope that Federer does not do the Agassi type by staying too long and get beaten by some weepy youngster, with the cries 'I beat my hero', in round one of some inconsequential tournaments. I love Agassi but can acknowledge that Federer is much too classy or even haughty not to be bothered by being beaten at an older age. Part of Fed's dominance is the aura, he steps on the court and the other guy has already thrown in the towel. That aura will go with him being repeatedly out of the finals of a grand slam. He won't like that.

That said, Nadal may have a better head to head than Fed, yet he still needs to win more than 16 grand slams than Fed to be considered the GOAT, or chicken or lion or whatever picks our fancy.

Someone once asked Walter Payton if he watched football on tv - he said no, that would be like a secratary spending her evenings typing.

I think Fed can be like Connors and Agassi in his late career. Both those two pulled off great wins late in their career, when they had ceased to be the dominant player. Both were also much more loved by the fans late in their career, while they were viewed as jerks when they were young and number 1. Fed never had the obnoxious jerk image like Connors and Agassi did when they were young, but there was still a tendency for some fans (myself included) to root for his opponent just because he was so dominent. I will be more likely to root for Fed in the next couple of years, and I think in general he will get the best fan support of his career.

RustyNYC says @1.35pm:
"Nadal has a 5000 point lead in the rankings, bigger domination than Federer ever had, is this exciting or dull now?"

You forgot the ATP doubled points about two years ago; moreover, now the percentage difference between a winner and a runner-up is larger. Bearing this in mind, one easily concludes that Federer definitely had such or maybe even bigger lead during his domination years. Just rescale...

clearly rafa is the better player RIGHT NOW, but imagine a 25 year old fed against a 25 year old rafa .. I can't imagine fed wouldn't have the slight edge

Common guys! Bodo will be out of Job if he doesn't do this. Bodo makes a living on Federer. :)

To put the GOAT thing to rest, you must have the most GS titles. Period.

Possibly room for a GOAT with GS's along with numerous other Title Records from other prestigious ATP Events.

HI guys, how's the post-bliss feeling, now its back to business as usual until the AO and potential 4th slam in a row media hyping!!!
anyhoo random thoughts in answer to post over these 6 pages

yes i agree roger has the best hair in tennis, but rafa has the best assets in tennis(lol)
@geelis and dania your post on page 2 are spot on about rafa and roger

i just realize i hadnt read a samantha elin post in quite a while

congrats delpo for returning ,u have many fans here mysef excluded lol

Mr X love your moniker, how's the weather in el rey's land?

CPM lol at the four goodie two shoes, that they are!!!

see u guys tomorrow if i remember to check in for rafa's match, anyone knows what time that will be estearn time?

random u know how they call australia "down under" and asia/china land of the rising sun, say what do they call our part of the world? boulevard of broken dreams? lol...land of dreams and its various backyards?

I just found out in an Argentine New paper that Nalbandian withdrew from Tokio and Shangai. He opted to rest and return for the European indoor circuit Stockholm, Basel and Paris Bercy all favourite tournaments of his. I would have liked to see him play in Tokio and especially in Shangai but well he never liked playing too many weeks in a row. And apart from that he may know that he will not be able to travel and play so many weeks in a row Asia Europe when his home is in Argentina. As Vilas once said if an Argie really wants to be number 1 he should set up a permanent residence in Europe or the US as another alternative but Bs As is too far away from where the action is.

nadal and fed played once this year - in madrid - so going on and on about how many more times can fed lose to nadal is a bit ridiculous...particularly in 2010.

let's check in in 10 years time to see how it all played out.

imo,nadal can have n 20-7 head to head. but if federer can bag 20-22 grand slams? it does matters anymore? wich stuation is best for TMF? i think almost any federer fan prefer second variant.

Federer might have been disappointed to have lost his match with Djokovich , but he did not realized how lucky he was after all . Nadal would have given him another even more painful thrashing to add to history of Nadal’s thrashings

Roger will have a great 2011 and YES,there will be 1 or 2 majors in his pocket. Mark my words.

You can say what you want to about Roger Federer but it still remains a fact that he has ore fans than any other tennis player and is getting more every day. Roger is the perfect man in every eay for his fans and they nearly die when he loses.I have read a lot about Roger and I believe he is in the tennis business for a few more years to come. He loves the crowd (since they really love him too)and he simply loves the game.He does not need the money as he has enough to last him into the hereafter.He is the most beautiful man in the world not only on the outside but on the inside and those who love him can see this plainly.There will never ever be another player in the future tht will have al lthe attributes of Roger. Enough said.