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What Would Shamil Do? 11/08/2010 - 12:49 PM

Mel by Pete Bodo

Greetings, everyone. I've posted some thoughts on Roger Federer's victory in Basel over at ESPN, in case you're interested. Also, I watched Flavia Pennetta clinch the Fed Cup tie for Italy yesterday evening, and found the experience somewhat dispiriting, at least from a chauvinistic point of view. As I wrote in my Racquet Reaction piece, times must be pretty grim if a back-to-the-wall win at 0-2 by Melanie Oudin launches wild and desperate hopes for a miracle result by the U.S. Good grief.

It was pretty clear from the second game of the Penetta vs. Coco Vandeweghe battle that if the U.S. were to upset Italy by winning three straight matches, it would be a feat only slightly greater than the 1980 USA Olympic ice hockey team's "Miracle on Ice." As it turns out, Lake Placid is a long, long way from San Diego in every regard, as was the distance between the respective efforts by the American teams in their moments of reckoning.

Flavia blew away CoCo; the U.S. has walked away from consecutive Fed Cup finals with one of the smallest of consolation prizes—a single match win, courtesy of Oudin. The USA's Fed Cup record against Italy now drops to 9-2, and judging by the success, commitment, and simple joie de jour of the Italians, they've excised the once 0-9 record from memory pretty easily. We were just warming up, Italian captain Corrado Barazzutti might remark.

The most recent match win by an Italian before last year's final was in 1999, when Silvia Farina Elia shocked Monica Seles to level a World Group semifinal played on red clay in Italy at 1-all. Elia took that tough three-setter, 6-4 in the third, after which Venus and Serena Williams said, "No mas!"

Venus surrendered just two games to Elia in the next match of the tie, and then Serena, a substitute for Seles, posted an identical 6-1, 6-1 win over Rita Grande. Remember the Williams sisters? Their past service somewhat mitigates their late-career indifference to Fed Cup.

When it comes to the specifics of the tie that ended yesterday, I come down on Mary Joe Fernandez's side when it comes to the singles nominations. Choosing Vandeweghe over Oudin was the right move. It's funny, but in our podcast before the tie started, I made a point to say it was probably premature to assume that Oudin would be nominated to play singles. Pundits and fans tend to overlook one critical dimension of team selection, which is current form. I'm not talking about the official WTA records over the past three months, either (although those were inconclusive in this case). I mean the team practices that take place in the days leading up to the tie. Trust me, the captains often demand that their singles candidates go at it tooth-and-claw, in order to get a good, "live," sense of each player's game. Practice sessions have often been the determining factor in nominations.

Those of us who weren't in San Diego had no idea of how the team practices went, and when you're talking about a pair of youngsters as talented—and still flawed—as Oudin and Vandeweghe, you don't have a lot of history to draw upon, either broadly speaking or in terms of recent WTA/ITF tournament results. Both girls have struggled, but Vandeweghe probably was playing slightly more consistent tennis. Plus, nominating Vandeweghe must have come as at least a mild surprise to the Italians (as it did to so many USA fans). I imagine the Italians were licking their chops at the prospect of getting a whack at America's darling, Oudin.

Another factor in play, and perhaps the most important one after current form, had to be the sheer bigness of Vandeweghe's game. Oudin, despite that Miracle on Cement slapshot forehand, just isn't the kind of player who can crush or dictate to an opponent. But CoCo can; she's 6-1 and (reportedly) 155 pounds (No, I am not going there. Fingers please stop!). She can crack the big serve and powder the forehand. And she seems comfortable attacking the net. All she lacks is the quality that, regrettably, is the ante for becoming an impact player—consistency.

But if you're Mary Joe, why not ask yourself, What would Shamil Do? (Shamil being Russian Davis and Fed Cup captain Shamil Tarpischev, who's made a career out of his out-of-the-box, last-minute substitutions that inevitably seem to work out.)

And here's something else: Don't you think seeing Vandeweghe selected to play singles helped light a fire under Oudin? She played a good match against an obviously off-form Francesca Schiavone. Still, it went into the books as a W over the world No. 7 and French Open champion. There's nothing like an implicit rejection to motivate a player, and if it jump starts Oudin's confidence, the up-side of this otherwise banal loss could be significant.

Coco At this year's U.S. Open, Oudin was a player suffering terribly from lack of confidence. I believe Oudin is destined to be a much better player than she's been this year. Maybe not Top 10, but at least a player who swings freely and confidently, and believes she has a right—and the tools—to be a factor at tournaments. I believe the same of Vandeweghe. The raw material is good, although I have some reservations about what I can only describe as a lack of discipline—usually, by 18, a player has the strokes that are going to make or break her career.

Vandeweghe will need to control all those moving parts better, play tighter, and work up an A-game based on making the best use of that big serve to hold games (rather than just clock aces or unreturnables), and develop a returning strategy based on the assumption that she can hold. Allowing Pennetta to break her right back at the beginning of the match, despite having led 40-love and extending the game to an excruciating 13 minutes, was the critical error of the tie. For it looked to me that Pennetta was struggling and playing too much within herself through the entire match. Vandeweghe couldn't exploit that timidity.

I thought Tracy Austin made the most relevant remark about Vandeweghe, while trying to describe a pretty egregious error CoCo made with, I think, her backhand. All in all, it was a botched shot, and you could get pretty deep into stroking science to explain it—postion of the hip, turn of the shoulders, yadda-yadda-yadda. But Tracy nailed it when she said the culprit was footwork. Pure and simple. Lousy footwork is a bit like a sloppy error in math. You inadvertently substitue a 6 for a 9 at the beginning of a calculation, and by the time you've arrived at the end of your formula you might as well throw it all out and start anew.

Basic speed and quickness are—more or less—god-given. Vandeweghe moves around the court pretty well for a girl of her size. What she'll need to do is improve that footwork, which will make her mobility more dangerous and effective.

I'm not prepared to give up on Vandeweghe yet. Nor on Oudin.


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Posted by beachbum 11/08/2010 at 12:54 PM

yawn

Posted by M.J. 11/08/2010 at 01:51 PM

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it for Vandeweghe. She proves, yet again, that being a big hitter isn't the magic key to success, especially if you can't find the court on a consistent basis. And what good is a big serve if you don't know how to use it to your advantage? The biggest difference between top players and everyone else it that they have the competitive mind to tie it all together. That's why I believe in Oudin much more than the other young Americans, because at least she has a certain level of mental toughness/fortitude, even if she doesn't have the biggest game or stature.

Posted by Master Ace 11/08/2010 at 01:51 PM

Titles (Finalist appearance if best result)

FINAL Ace WTA rankings for 2010 (Overall Record; Top 10 record for Doha participant)

(1)Caroline Wozniacki (62-17; 8-4): Beijing, Montreal,Tokyo, New Haven, Ponte Vedra Beach and Copenhagen
(2)Kim Clijsters (40-7; 10-1) : United States Open, WTA Championships,Miami, Cincinnati and Brisbane
(3)Serena Williams (25-4; 1-3): Australian Open and Wimbledon
(4)Vera Zvonareva (49-18; 10-9): Pattaya City
(5)Samantha Stosur(47-19; 5-6): Charleston
(6)Francesca Schiavone (41-23; 5-9): French Open and Barcelona
(7)Venus Williams (38-7; 4-2): Dubai and Acapulco
(8)Elena Dementieva (41-18; 6-6): Sydney and Paris
(9)Victoria Azarenka (42-20; 7-6): Stanford and Moscow
(10)Jelena Jankovic (38-23; 4-5): Indian Wells
(11)Justine Henin (32-8): Stuttgart and s-Hertogenbosch
(12)Na Li (36-20; 5-4): Birmingham
(13)Aravane Rezai (36-25): Madrid and Bastad
(14)Maria Sharapova (33-11): Memphis and Strasbourg
(15)Ana Ivanovic(33-20): Bali and Linz

Posted by Master Ace 11/08/2010 at 01:52 PM

WTA Bonus Pool Money

Serena - 0
Dinara - 425K
Svetlana - 700K
Caroline - 525K
Elena - 550K
Venus - 0
Victoria - 275K
Jelena - 300K
Vera - 300K
Agnieszka - 262.5K

Posted by Master Ace 11/08/2010 at 02:01 PM

For Samantha Elin and other interested people at TW:

http://tinyurl.com/238uwbv

(Repeat post from Fed Cup Notebook)

Posted by beachbum 11/08/2010 at 02:18 PM

This is a perfect example of just how unimportant Fed Cup is with 7 posts on this particular blog in just under 2 hours. Who cares?

Posted by Pete 11/08/2010 at 02:28 PM

Im sorry but just choosing Co Co over Melonie was terrible she did not perform under pressure situations and Mel has proven to be a big match player. Co Co just goes for the big shot and does not try anything else to rattle her opponent. Flavia is to good and smart a player to not figure the big hitters she has beaten Venus twice at the French Open and Mary should try playing Co co when it is not the Final so get more experience.

Posted by Pete 11/08/2010 at 02:30 PM

Pete, please choose a different avatar in order to avoid confusion. Pete

Posted by lira vega 11/08/2010 at 03:05 PM

I keep tuning in Coco's matches to try and catch her on one of the days when I might see some of the reasons she's considered to have potential, but no luck so far. I've heard plenty of comparisons with Lindsay and while they are somewhat similar in their ability to induce cringing in this spectator while trying to watch them move around the court, Coco's nowhere near a shotmaker enough to make up for it (unlike Linds, who was, granted, a total freak that way).
Her willingness to come to the net is maybe commendable, but is she really any good up there? Colour me unconvinced...I'll keep on tuning in, she did have those two good runs in Tokyo and er, San Diego, was it? Must've played at a higher level there?

On the other hand, I haven't given up on Oudin, either. Her begging everyone to not expect her to win matches lately has been pretty bizarre, but she has game.

Posted by mick1303 11/08/2010 at 03:15 PM

WTA 2010 in numbers:
http://www.talkabouttennis.com/forum/blog.php?b=358

Posted by lira vega 11/08/2010 at 03:42 PM

mick, were any of "Slamless no. 1s" no. 1 according to your ranking system?
And would it make you think about "tinkering" with it a bit if it happened? ;)

Posted by the mad baller 11/08/2010 at 03:46 PM

Oudin should have been the go to singles player and she should have played doubles too. Nothing against CoCo but she is only 18 and does not have the expeirience yet. But Melanie does. She is such a scrappy fighter she finds a way to win and she is great in places like Fed Cup you can see she plays with a lot of passion and that is more important than how well you play in team practice. Plus the fans love Melanie for this and they want to see her play and will really get behind her to cheer her to a win.
I am very dissapointed in Mary Joe's selection of players and it went all wrong. I think Mel should have played 2 or 3 of the matches and would have had a very good chance of winning all. The US should have won this title on home soil. I think Mary Joe is a good captain but she really messed this on up big time. Oh well its just a game.

Posted by GC20 11/08/2010 at 03:49 PM

Pete - Doesn't Coco have the same agent as Sharapova at IMG? Is it too cynical to think that maybe the connection between IMG, Mary Joe, Tony Godsick could have something to do with the selection of Coco?

Posted by mick1303 11/08/2010 at 05:01 PM

Lira,

According to my ranking Hingis was #1 in 2000 and Davenport was #1 in 2004. If I’m not mistaken, official WTA ranking had them also #1 for these years. For 2008 I had Serena as #1 ahead of Jankovic.

Regarding Slamless #1s and “tinkering” – at some point you’ll come to realize that Slams wins are not the only thing that matters. Slam winners could underperform otherwise and be eclipsed by other players. It happened before and it’ll happen again. Real life data has a way of resisting to “tinkering”

Posted by Josh 11/08/2010 at 05:03 PM

Poster GC20 hammered the nail on the head with his post! The other reason Mary Jo picked Coco was because of her celebrity parents.

I don't feel sorry for Oudin; perhaps now she understands how the Williams sister feel when treated with disrepect by the tennis establishment!

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 05:14 PM

Patrick, first, thanks for the ESPN article and the statement from the USTA spokeswomen. The statement from the USTA said this, "In an effort to maintain realistic expectations for our young players and ensure that all praise is truly DESERVED, commentators will be required to back up any statement regarding a player's performance with actual FACTS and statistic," said the USTA spokeswomen. I think through this statement, the USTA is clearly acknowledging there may have been a gap between reality and what we were told in regards to some players. A gutsy move by the USTA. As Oudin exited the USO by the second round, P-mac proclaimed her a top 20 Player and last night, we had Oudin's mentor tell us she could be a top l0 player based on winning one match. I think both need to take the suggestion of the USTA and back up their statements with facts. I think MJF made the right choice, Coco had a better season in the latter part of the season while Oudin was struggling, frequently going out of her tournaments by the first or second round. I believe she played about 14 tournaments and went out in ALL of them by the second round with the exception of only two tournaments. In about half of these, she was out by the first round. These were the grim stats and facts that Fernandez was looking at when she chose Coco over Oudin. In Oudin, she was looking at a player who was out of about 90% of her tournaments by the second round. Based upon these stats,she made the right decision given that prior to last night Oudin had never taken a set off Frannie. Pete, thanks for this post on Oudin. It was great. No, I don't think she is without talent. She certainly has a great deal of drive, hard work and determination, excellent speed on the court and gets to many balls. However, I do believe that she is very limited in the natural gifts such as, serve, weapon and power that is common in elite players such as Serena. I would also agree with Pete that no, you're not looking at a top ten player. That to me is clear, but she can still be a force and win tier level titles with some improvements to her game. Good luck to her. I want to praise the USTA on their statement, although, I don't believe you can control the hyperbole that comes out of the mouth of commentators, their efforts to try should be praised. I also think their decision to bluntly talk about the lack of talent in the women's game in the states and their decision to go into schools to develop players should be praise. I believe that this will do more for US tennis, then hyping player who are clearly not what some reporters and commentators would like us to believe. I can say I believe my countrywomen Sofia Arvidsson is a top ten or top 20 player, but does that make it so and who the heck would believe me?! Good luck to the USTA and to Oudin.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 05:22 PM

I think the US should look at the Russian federation to see what the heck they're doing that is producing so many top young players.

Posted by pov 11/08/2010 at 05:37 PM

I think that if Vandeweghe decides to really get in shape she'll be a serious force on the tour.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 05:37 PM

I forgot to say something, I also think that Oudin's height is a disadvantage in the modern game. I believe she is about 5'6. With a player that short, it is easy to get the ball over their head. I'm 5'11 and I LOVED playing player of Oudin's height because I knew I could get the ball over them. It's no accident that Justine is the only top player that you see at her height, and she has some very special elements in her game.

Posted by pov 11/08/2010 at 05:40 PM

"But Tracy nailed it when she said the culprit was footwork."
Yep. And, for most people, being heavier than one's optimal BMI indicates makes being light on the feet more difficult

Posted by Ruth 11/08/2010 at 06:29 PM

MA: If you're around, would you mind providing me with a link to a place where I can find the explanation of the bonus money assignment? I think that I understand Venus and Serena's $0, but I'm puzzled about some of the other amounts; and I know that the rules would clarify things for me. Thanks.

(I'd also be grateful if anyone other than MA, who posted the info, can supply that link.)

Posted by tennyrunners 11/08/2010 at 06:40 PM

"I forgot to say something, I also think that Oudin's height is a disadvantage in the modern game. I believe she is about 5'6. With a player that short, it is easy to get the ball over their head. I'm 5'11 and I LOVED playing player of Oudin's height because I knew I could get the ball over them. It's no accident that Justine is the only top player that you see at her height, and she has some very special elements in her game."

Did you completely forget about the lady Oudin beat, French Open champion Schiavone, who is 5'5 1/2 according to the WTA? You could say that the top 10 has gotten shorter, not taller in 2010.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 06:45 PM

Right Tennyrunners, two top players in the WTA who are short. Wow that is a big number. Would absolutely not agree that height isn't a disadvantage.

Posted by tennyrunners 11/08/2010 at 07:12 PM

"Right Tennyrunners, two top players in the WTA who are short. Wow that is a big number. Would absolutely not agree that height isn't a disadvantage."

So what is tall? In your opinion? You seem to have a lot of them.


Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 07:13 PM

Pete Thanks.Playing Fed Cup for your country regardless of your current ranking gives any player pride for starters and we all watched Mel swing freely and had a good soild win over Fran the current GS Roland Garos titel holder.Like who could imagine that? maybe Italy thought they were home and hosed? though looking at the stats of both players I dont think so.

In regards to Coco let me tell you I adore that name for starters I agree with your thoughts if she did improve for all round movment indeed she would be a threat.

Mel with this win only gives her the confidence say for next year.I dont know if she can say make the top 10 though I have always admired her mentality.That to me in any players says heaps.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 07:19 PM

I think most tennis players are much taller than the average women. I consider tall to be 5'8 or above. I believe the players are actually getting taller, not shorter.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 07:24 PM

Although I have seen Oudin say her height is 5'6, to me she appears to be much shorter, like around 5'3.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 07:25 PM

Samantha Elin Go to the WTA site wouldnt they have her height and weight there.

Posted by Colette 11/08/2010 at 07:36 PM

Samantha, sorry to have misled you. Suggest you read my follow up post at 10:16 (and google her "namesake," George Orwell).

Posted by tennyrunners 11/08/2010 at 07:37 PM

There is a picture of USA team standing together and Oudin is the same height as Mattek-Sands, and they are both listed as 5'6". Liezel Huber is listed as 5'11", and she looks to be about that much taller. Unless they are all wrong. LOL.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 07:47 PM

LOL Colette, no problem. But it would still be a good idea.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 07:54 PM

Agreed tennyrunner, just took a look at the picture. She is 5'6, when I look at her against Sands.

Posted by Master Ace 11/08/2010 at 08:08 PM

Ruth,
First of all on the bonus pool money is take the top 10 players from 2009. Then, I looked at the money earned for 2010. When I see 100 for singles money earned but 200 as total, the difference is the bonus pool money for making their Roadmap commitments. The bonus pool explanation is in the WTA rulebook.

Posted by Rita 11/08/2010 at 08:14 PM

and the Williams sisters leave us high and dry yet again, but the establishment still hypes them as being great for American tennis.

Posted by Samantha Elin, Caro 2010 YE #1 11/08/2010 at 08:27 PM

"and the Williams sisters leave us high and dry." No, that was the USTA that left you high and dry with players who couldn't get the job done!

Posted by Texastennis 11/08/2010 at 08:37 PM

Oudin is playing the $75K pro circuit event in Phoenix this week - as is Coco (never can spell her last name).

Posted by Lynne (Rafalite) 11/08/2010 at 08:56 PM

Does anyone remember the 5'2" South African female player, Amanda Coetzer ? She beat many of the bigger players, Seles, Sabatini, Graf, Pierce and Davenport and won 9 single titles and 9 doubles titles.

Of course, tennis players are taller now but she had a brilliant career and managed to attain a world ranking of No. 3.

Posted by Northernboy 11/08/2010 at 08:57 PM

Well regardless of Coco or Oudin, I'm thinking the next big North American splash on the WTA will be our Canadian girl Rebecca Marino. You remember her, the 6'1", fleet, big serving 19 y/o who took Venus to a tiebreak at this year's USO.

Posted by Ruth 11/08/2010 at 09:12 PM

Thanks, MA.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 09:36 PM

Lynne Thanks for reminding me of Amanda.

Good things do come in small packages

Posted by Colette 11/08/2010 at 09:40 PM

Amanda was a great mover. And now we also have the Diminutive Cibulkova.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 09:47 PM

Colette Dommy is a fav of mine.I got to talk to her at Medibank this year and I got a great photo of her.She is very good to her fans and always has a smile on her face.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 09:51 PM

Well I need to have a siesta after getting up early for Paris.Thanks to Richard I got my spray tan on time.

Posted by Carol 11/08/2010 at 10:17 PM

Hi everybody
AM, I've just read a wonderful Rafa's interview and he says that AO is the place that they treat the best to the players

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/08/2010 at 11:48 PM

carol u need to get a grip on the fact that tennis players are zillionires who say things to the press for their own benefit and to take it with a grain of salt...as much as i know rogie doenst walk on water or heal the sick, neither does moonball rafa... he gets million dollar appearance fees wit show u p at tournaments and fakes injuries to get rest weeks... this is the reality of pro tennis...

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 11:56 PM

Carol I just woke up from having a siesta and just read your post

Just dismiss Tim anything to do with Rafa he is always going to well you know? lol!

Well I have been attending the Sydney Medibank tournament for years and have also worked there and all the players love coming to Australia.They love our laid back lifestyle and the weather well most of the European players are coming from a cold winter.The AO is a slam again all the players comment have well they get treated.Roger even said in his victory speech this year he loves coming to the Ao and he feels he plays his best tennis here.Well looking at his amount of wins and would say that too.

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/08/2010 at 11:56 PM

I can only imagine if Rog dropped out with a bogus injury, doesnt do a lot to improve rafa's reputation as a cheater and game player...shoulder injury baloney!

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 11:58 PM

should read last line "well looking at his amount of wins I would say that too"

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/08/2010 at 11:59 PM

Tim Leave my boy alone no?

Maybe he is letting his dear friend Roger win Paris

Roger isnt getting any younger and dear Rafa is soo compassionate

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:02 AM

marg have some chocolate and gimme a break!
rafa's shoulder is no more hurt than my left toe! he's a fragile flower who when faced with defeat comes up with excuses..he manipulates the media and like his kads they fall for any story he wants to sell...

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:05 AM

Dearest Tim note the "dearest"?????

I will have a GE with lime instead its been very humid and I am trying to keep my wonderful figure intact thanks

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:07 AM

gez take off those rose colored glasses lol

when Raf gets his RR cupcake with his minions he will laugh all the way to the semis... that service grip change out of the blue at age 24 which of course never occured to any of his genious coaches before is a miracle

Posted by CWATC 11/09/2010 at 12:07 AM

In support of those of us who said Roger looked tired in the Basel final, here he is on arrival in Paris:

"I'm a bit worn-out, I've had a lot of matches," said the winner of a fourth Basel trophy. "I'm hoping my mind and body hold up. But I don't play until Wednesday and there will be time to recover. I'm confident that my form will carry me through."

Kinda still wish he'd pull out and save it for London, being my usual overprotective self.

BTW I for one am glad Oudin finally had a good result again. Her USO QF was somewhat flukey, but not completely as she also made 4th round of Wimby that same year. There is room in women's tennis for a player who wins through grit despite not having huge weapons; look at Shahar Pe'er.

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:10 AM

marg! yes extra salt please

and by the way, im a tennis player since age 12 if I can add 25 mph to my serve by changing my grip, i could have figured that out on my own! u think its gonna take the world's best coaches to get to this point at his advanced age??? i mean we are all being incredibly naive to think it took this long to assess a grip change as the key to his winning the US Open... bah!!

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:11 AM

Tim Note I am not saying dear or dearest

I am glad Rafa is taking precautions ok.Cause usually at this time of the year he is Stuffed.

Though if my memeory serves me well both Roger and Rafa didnt make the end of year final last year no?

Whats Good for Goose Is Also Good For The Gander no?

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:12 AM

oops Brain Snap I meant the year before I havent woken up properly

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:13 AM

Tim You are suppose to be giving me a GE not me ok?

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:14 AM

i get that people cling to their fantasies but i cant believe bodo and tignore cant see through or question this storyline...can you imagine if Federer came up with this fantasy to explain his latest big win?? u think i win your first Slam at 18 and take six years to figure out your might change yoru service grip to add 20 mph?? how is this not a big story with our wonderful reporters in the media? anyone who's ever played tennis knows u cant do this..

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:15 AM

CWTC I think both Roger and Nole look tired though credit to Roger he came through in the 3rd set

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:17 AM

Tim Rafa is a living miracle ok

Though as yet he hasnt walked on water

Though give him time no?

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:18 AM

Anyway I believe Roger will do ok in Paris even though it has never been a happy hunting ground for him

Anyway I want to see Mirka's Fab Bags

I missed out on them in Basel pfft.

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:23 AM

ha well maybe rafa should take six months off, that would really help him prevent injury! im frankly sick of his injury nonsense...he's barely missed a tourney for 5 years, let him compare with Del Po, Davyd, tsonga, etc, his inuries are nothing in comparison, Fed's are just as serious...

and until Mirka learns how to dress the twins in appropo couture, i suggest the Feds keep them under wraps@ LOL!

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:25 AM

Tim

That isnt very nice about the twins and their dress code maybe Miss A Wintour is needed in that area

Remember she is a Fashion Godess and runs the Fashion Bible Vogue

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:27 AM

Tim

May I remind in 2005 Rafa wasnt sure he would play the game again and I am serious because of his underfoot problem.Then other injuries have foreced him off the tour for periods of time.You may scoff at these injuries that is your own opinion

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:39 AM

marg the twins are a fashion tragedy, no?

and rafa's injuries are frankly overblown and ridiculous, what periods of time are u talking about? ROger's feet were just as serious as Rafa's underfoot problem, and rafa has missed very very few tournaments with his 'injuries' he's just told the world about them with a very big megaphone...

let him talk to tsonga and del po about injuries, enough already! hes a big big baby he himself said he's fine, dont make me throw you in with the mama lions! LOL

Posted by Long John 11/09/2010 at 12:42 AM

NoNo VandeForgetit and Melanot Nodin.
Shamil would fire Shamu and BamBam and move on.
(And note Anna Skeletour looking very geriatric mannequin in the stands).

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 12:54 AM

Dear Time As Madame President I have no intention to be thrown in the Lions Den thank you very much

May I suggest you google Rafa Nadal and see the period in 2005 and this was a near career ending problem

Posted by CWATC 11/09/2010 at 12:55 AM

I'm not going to get close to the "who's really injured debate" but instead shamelessly spread pap pics of the twins around the world. What say you, Tim, is the casual fashion here ok? Matches daddy's latest on-court look.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1153.snc4/149547_461354178117_625443117_5431124_1356064_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs559.ash2/148099_461428018117_625443117_5432822_802717_n.jpg

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:55 AM

oh brother thats 6 years ago already, and thats the drama queen talking big time... Feds feet were just as serious as Rafa's and Fed never said boo about it, Rafa needs to just shut up already about his endless injuries and exxhaustion and play the game of tennis like the no. 1, instead of always looking for excuses when it gets too hot in the kitchen...

i cant stand rafa's endless injury yacking, play or go home and fish on your boat, period. can i imagine laver or rosewall endlessly harping about tendinitis??

Posted by Jankofan 11/09/2010 at 12:58 AM

@master Ace

What is WTA bonus pool?

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 12:59 AM

career ending at 19?? oh my! how long was Rafa out exacty? how long as davydenko, del po or tsonga been out? lets compare, shall we?

im sorry but rafa is a whiny baby when it cmes to this he's lucky he's playing and injury free for a long long time, every pro athelte has aches and pains he needs to shut the hail up with his whining...he's healthy enough!

Posted by Sherlock 11/09/2010 at 01:01 AM

Tim, you're going to have a coronary at this rate. Relaaaaaax. Have a drink or three. :)

"However, I do believe that she is very limited in the natural gifts such as, serve, weapon and power that is common in elite players such as Serena."

Samantha, were you talking about Melanie or the beautiful and talented #1? That statement pretty much covers both. :)

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:02 AM

Now to Novemeber 28,the public will be able to bid on orginal works by Rafael Nadal,Roger Federer,Novak Djokovic,Andy Murray,Robin Soderling and the remaining three qualifers

www.BarclaysATP WorldTour Finals.com/Art of Tennis.

The artworks will be put up for auction for staggered 10 day intervals throghout the month to create excitement in the build up to and during the season ending event.

Soderlings self portrait will be the first to go under the hamer for a 10 day period,with bidding beginning today at 8pm GMT/3pm ET.Check the website for the complete auction schedule.

Fans and propspective bidders can view the original portraits at the free "Art of Tennis" as the following locations this month

La Galleria Pall Mall
30 Royal Opera Arcade
London

Fan Zone@ Barclays ATP World Tour Finals
The O2,London

The Galleria from the 8th-18th November

Fan Zone 21-28th November

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:04 AM

CWATC Thanks for those photos

I love the last one when the little girl snuggle into Roger

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:05 AM

Dear Tim

Save your money and maybe you can be the successful bidder on Rogers portrait

Hell Sherlock is even offering you a drink

Things must be bad

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 01:06 AM

ha tell your boy and the mama lions to just stop with this ridiculous injury whining@

its the boy who cried wolf over and over again...booooo Rafa

Posted by Sherlock 11/09/2010 at 01:08 AM

AM, indeed. We've reached a point of desperation with Tim. It'll take all our best efforts to save him. :)

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:09 AM

Tim

May I suggest you take up Yoga it will calm you ok

Also good for the overall limbs of your body and make you supple for life

A supple Tim

Hey I might a photo of that no?

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 01:14 AM

.l\\lol worry about me and ignore your boy's endless injury fantasies... its not me who needs calm, its ouch it hurts whiney Rafa who never shuts up about injuries that dont exist but he's got the whole world wrapped around his finger with his whining .. how much evidence does anyone need?

Posted by Sherlock 11/09/2010 at 01:15 AM

"and by the way, im a tennis player since age 12 if I can add 25 mph to my serve by changing my grip, i could have figured that out on my own!"


It's going to be fun to watch this myth grow over the years. In about 5 years, we will be hearing how Rafa added 50 mph to his serve at the US Open. He was the second coming of Sampras!! :)

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:16 AM

Tim

Maybe you and Rafa can do Yoga together no>

Hey that would make headlines

Then you would be able to own Rogers portrait out right

I think of everything no?

Posted by Sherlock 11/09/2010 at 01:16 AM

Well, I don't know about the whole world, but it appears he's certainly got you wrapped around his finger, Tim. :)

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:17 AM

Sherlock "The second coming of Sampras"???????

You will have every Sampras fan coming to get you

By the way maybe you should join Tim in Yoga?

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 01:19 AM

lets talk about that shoulder tendinitis, no?

LOL!

rafa is a joke

Posted by Sherlock 11/09/2010 at 01:20 AM

AM, lol. I think you've got it all covered. :)

Well, sorry I can't stay since it appears we're just getting started, but I need every hour of beauty sleep I can get. Plus, my shoulder tendonitis has been acting up, and the doctor prescribed lots of rest and no trips to Paris.

Good night and good luck, AM. Take good care of Tim while I'm gone. :)

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 01:21 AM

maybe rafa should change his grip again, he will be serving 150 mph by London time! no one who plays tennis at any competitive level can change their grip and reinvent their game, its ridiculous, again i said, ANY competitive player even without a coaching staff kknows this is not possible as at 24 year old

LOL

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:23 AM

Sherlock You too with a shoulder problem no?

Dont worry I prefer this tournament in Lyon where I lived as a youg girl

Dont worry I will get Tim drunk on GE with extra salt

I know what to give him for Christmas a year long memebership to Yoga

I can see Tim in Yoga gear

Night

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 01:24 AM

my shoulder is aching i dont know whats wrong, i need to sleep and change my grip and ill be serving aces and running with the rabbits in London!

woo hoo! my name is rafa, and im laughing my arse off...

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:28 AM

My Dear Tim

Have another couple of GE's with extra salt on Sherlock and Me no?

Remember The Swiss Legend now has the Moonpie and he is going to give everyone hell with his new found shot

Posted by Tim (Moonpies lead to violence!) 11/09/2010 at 01:33 AM

i know the swiss moonpies will do the trick but i cant abide by these spanish fariy tales, i wish he could just show up and win or lose without all the excuses that come with it ... he just plays this nonense to the hilt and expects sympathy he knows there's no injury

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:36 AM

Tim

Well Rafa is just a marvel in all areas's no

He isnt the no 1 player for nothing and the youngest player in this era to get his Golden career Slam at age 24 with all the bull

Hmmm mind the pun no?

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 01:43 AM

Tim

I think you need your beauty sleep like Sherlock

I mean its late in the Capitol of The Universe NYC

Posted by lira vega 11/09/2010 at 02:08 AM

Apologies for interrupting this fascinating discussion...Just wanted to thank mick for his answer way upthread.
I don't have slightest of issues with Slamless no. 1s, btw. It was just sort of roundabout way of asking if all the hysterics and debates around them and claims that WTA official system is bad were part of the reason for starting your own version of rankings ;)
I liked that you've posted all those other lists as well as overall rankings. Some amusing stuff there, but no time to elaborate now...Thanks again.

Posted by Angel of the Surf (Flavia and Gisela YEC Doubles Champion and Winner of 7 Titles in 2010) 11/09/2010 at 02:13 AM

Count me in as another one who has a shoulder (rotar cuff) injury. My treatment is doing some crazy rehab exercises and heat packs. The pain has gone into my neck causing slight headaches.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 02:19 AM

Lira Vega Hi you can butt in anytime you like

Hope you are good

AA I am soo sorry to hear that.How did it happen may I ask

Posted by Angel of the Surf (Flavia and Gisela YEC Doubles Champion and Winner of 7 Titles in 2010) 11/09/2010 at 02:20 AM

AM over extending in the gym using weights but it has eased off in the last couple of days.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 02:30 AM

AA I thought so watch it ok

I have just gone up in my weights and now doing 5 different types of excercises for my tri ceps including 3 different styles of push up and I am feeling pain in my tri ceps.I have a day rest still...........

Posted by Angel of the Surf (Flavia and Gisela YEC Doubles Champion and Winner of 7 Titles in 2010) 11/09/2010 at 02:44 AM

Like you am I am only slight but only just a bit taller. I don't lift that much but I wanted to start pushing myself as I was getting a bit bored plus the fact I couldn't see any difference in my definition in the arms. Well my triceps are ok as I don't want to start getting chicken wing arms.

I'm off to see a french movie tonight so I prolly won't get to see any tennis especially the first one. Really hoping that Mischa and Monaco can win their respective matches.

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 02:48 AM

AA My goal is to able to do "chins ups" again though its a slow thing in motion lol!

Posted by Aussiemarg,Madame President,Dear Wayne is Free,VamosWayne 11/09/2010 at 02:50 AM

AA Patience.Getting defination takes time.I used to have "chicken" everything.Though I got mine through hard work.I can get good defination though it takes time and you have to keep doing it on a regular basis

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