Sherlock Seeing I won big on the races yeaterday

I am still in Horse mode

Hence the Kick line

Lock, you think he'll be the best pitcher in the league in a couple years, if he's not there already?

Krajicek is 6-4 vs Sampras. His best ranking was nr. 7 in 1996.

And for all of you interested, Robin Soderling won 6-1, 6-4 against Albert Montañés in 1 hour and 1 minute.
And Kolya won 6-2 the first set against Martí.
The Murrays Bros are crashing the Duo Dinámico (Feli and Verdi) First set 6-3 and 4-3 with a break in the second set.

In regards to yesterdays discussion, I should have said that how we judge players is very subjective and the criterias which people use are very individual. I place a heavy emphasis on GS and actual titles wons, but I know that there are people who disagree with that. I think among tennis fans there is a wide difference in what constitutes a good player. I have read in here where people will make the argument that they think Kournikova was a good singles player. Obviously they're not using the criteria of slams and titles to determine what they think is important in evaluating a player. They're probably using the ranking which is inherently flawed because it is design to measure quantity, or the player with the most points. I don't put much weigh on the ranking in evaluating a player because the computer can be fooled by the amount of tournaments a player participates in rather then how much they achieved in that tournament, ie, a title. I also don't put a great weight on a single good run in the slam because tennis is littered with fluke runs deep into the slams. I define a fluke run as an average player who plays far above his normal level for a two week period and then goes back to their norm. Pironkova, prior to her semi final run at Wimbledon went out of nine of her tournaments by the first round. After her great run at Wimbledon, she continued to go out of her tournaments by the first or second round. I would classify the runs of Oudin, Stevenson, Lucic, Kivitova, Kournikova, Pironkova has fluke runs, meaning the player never got close to a slam again. My point is that when you talk about what makes a player good, you're alway going to get a vast variety of opinions depending on the criterias people use. I use GS and titles to evaluate player because I think of all the criterias they have the least flaws and are the most accurate in judging players. Yes, you can fool the rankings by playing a lot, and an average player can go deep in the slams and play very well for a short period of time but consistently winning slams and titles shows the true quality of your game. That is why I use it to evaluate player.

hahaha,Madame President,you know whatever goes on in my life, I have to come tell you(after all you only have Briony),so you have got to put up with my moods too,in case you could help!hahahahaha

zengii Thanks for those scores

Glad to see Kolya with a win

I must say Valenica has some good players competing there

AM, does that mean you're taking me shopping with your winnings? :)

Oooh, good question, NP. While he wasn't as dominant this year as the last two, he's certainly in the discussion. Not many guys his age have 2 Cy Young's. The trick will be health. That's a lot of torque on a relatively slight frame. He reminds me of Pedro Martinez in that way. It'll be interesting to see how long he can keep it going.

Aube LOL!!!!!!!!!! I take your points on board

I must say I can wait for tomorrows change of your moniker

I feel already it could be the high light of my day

Just saying lol!

Sherlock Its that a Trick Question?

There you go Madame President!

AM, lol. Couldn't resist. :)

Ok, work meeting is calling. Ciao for now, gang.

It depends how efficient he is. Last night he was very efficient. But Matt Cain is 1 year younger and Madison Bumgarner is only 21, barely able to taste the champagne.

Can you believe it was those 3, plus Sanchez, while Zito never made the line-up? They hardly needed their excellent relievers.

Fear the Beard!

Go Giants!

It was an amazing series. I love good pitching ball games.

AM,
Kolya and Javier on serve second set 2-all.

JKaren,
I've just read your comments about Tomas coming your way. Keep safe.

Lock, one of my BFFs was touting him like crazy the other day. And looks like he started his (major-league) career pretty late, 2. I hope he can keep it up, if only to shut up the bigger-players-are-better crowd.

Aube LOL!

AB,
The Beard was the definition of closer in the entire postseason. Also, The Freak, Cain, Sanchez(MVP of the team in September in my opinion) and Bumgarner was able to save the bullpen by eating up innings. Bullpen was valuable in the clinching game against the Philles as Sanchez was ineffective.

zengii oops I gave Kolya merit when his game hasnt yet finishes

Thanks for the updates

Last post from me today. The Murrays' won 6-3, 7-6 and Kolya is up a break in the second set 4-2.

Have a nice day/night, everyone.

zenggi Thanks and good night.

hi guys..

thanks for the concerns, Jk, annie... annie had to facebook message me...

doing great in the philipines, it was last week with that typhoon, luckily it only affected much of the northern part, (ie luzon)... as im living in mindanao, the southern island...

btw, congrats to nole, and sad for gracia lopez loss... GGL looks orlando bloom to me... he's so handsome i say...

and, i love reading the discussion about the POY debate... hahahah... kimmy had a good shot at it, but serena can't be denied too, and so does caro...

anyway, good morning to all... mabuhay!!!

and happy birthday AM!!!!

hey... JK... we're friends on facebook... hahaha... im phaura reinz... =)

Master Ace: very time I saw Brian Wilson's crazy eyes, I was reminded of Nole's after he beat Roger in the USO.

Aubry Huff is threatening to wear his lucky thong in the parade tomorrow...with only a t-shirt and spray-on tan.

Glad to see that the Murray bros. are playing doubles!

Pat Soo glad to hear that your ok

I have visited Manila many years ago and know that your country has had many bad tpyhoons.Ren a poster here also comes from the Philippines and has told me the horrid effects as well.

Take Care Pat and thanks for the Birthday wishes.

To me, Caro has two more levels to really be at the top. She needs to beat players at Kim level. I believe that she is getting very close to this, she took Kim to three tight sets. The final level will be Serena. People don't know this but Caro had match point against Serena so she is getting there. Most improved player, definetly Caro. She is something else with how much she has improved. She squash Maria, a player she had never beat and Vika used to be a better player, but Caro has beat her in their lasts matches and has placed a WIDE gap between herself and the other young players. Why can't the other young players do what Caro has done? Simple they don't have her game or mental toughness. She is the future of the WTA. Kom sa, Caro!Scandinavia's and world's no l.

Kim, "I'm not going to do this for that long, she can have it." Kim is passing the torch to Scandinavia's beautiful and talented world's no l.And it will burn bright in Caro's capable hands. Kom sa, Caro!

@sam..

hi sam.. havent talked to you for a long time.. but i swear there's someone on twitter who adores caro as much as you do... she's sabrina and she's from the scandinanvian countries too...

i have to agree on 'vika used to be a better player'... i swear i could have said it somewhere last year, wiht vika reaching 2 slam quarters adn winning miami...

but this year's caro is one to behold... one thing i like about her is her mental toughness... i think she believes she can win any matches that she can... she does not lose leads, and she serves matches perfectly... though she had somethings to improve (her game, her record against rere, vee, juju and kimmy, and maria)...

caro doesn't fold easily... she's resilient and is always finding the best ways to out maneuver her opponents... and that's something vika does not have these days...

vika started good this year, but fell out of grace since that fabled serena match in melbourne... btw, i think serena can produce the best/worst in players??? just a matter fo thought from me...

serena and other players:

1. serena v. venus 08, usopen
* since serena saved ton of set points, virtual match points against vee, vee has since lost some important matches she's about to win...

2. serena v. vika, '10, aussie open
*since having a big lead in the second set, vika then had a not so good year at the slams, and at other important tourneys...

....

Samantha Elin,
Remember we(or I) put Maria as part of the Elite Four with the other members being Venus, Serena and Justine. Now, I will have to reduct the Elite Four to the Terrific Three. With Maria's shoulder issues, Kim won 2 Slams and Svetlana won one.

Pat,
Did you know that Caroline is 93-4 when she won the first set of matches that she played since April 2009?

Pat,it's really recomforting to see ya here,now only vote for Serena,you hear me???

"only vote for Serena"

where you guys vote?

Aussiemarg, I'm sorry to have left you hanging... I was working and had to take a call with a client, and then finish a draft to send out, etc. Yes, I have a one-handed backhand. People tell me my slice backhand is my best shot (and it's probably true), but if I get the right ball (and that's a mighty big if) I like to drill it crosscourt with a modicum of topspin.

Manuelsantana and others... no doubt Tilden nd Laver faced a slew of great champions like Sampras did. And it is one argument people might use to say federer doesn't really belong in the GOAT discussion (oh no, not THAT again). But, let's not forget that for a little more than five years, no one not named Rafa could steal any hardware from this guy Fed. I mean, it seems to me that in a less Fed-dominant era (okay, half-decade), guys like Roddick, Safin, Djokovic, Murray... maybe even Hewitt, Soderling would have a couple of trophies to their name and might one day be HoF inductees.

Lully,I'm just kidding Pat from Phillipines about player of the year,I myself don't even know if there is a vote.In my heart she's always the one,vote or no vote

Sherlock - before heading over to the newer post
so glad for hte info re Rostagno
yes, he was a cool kid
and that he has gone on , finished his education and has a good career says a lot about him
with that resume , no wonder Rob ( or pro ) brags about beating this guy once :)

Slice:

I believe that Federer certainly belongs in the GOAT discussion.

To date, Federer has been the GOTE (a term someone was using on this board, recently) for his era, as well as the post-Laver era.

But, I'm in the camp of those who believe that it is impossible to determine who is the GOAT due to the largely different circumstances under which the various GOTEs competed.

schizoid: loved your earlier post on the deep deep men's game in the 80's. What a wonderful bunch of players and all jockeying to win the slams. Not just 2 or 3 guys like today. I have to say those were great days for tennis lovers!

glad to see Pat checked in!

beth: cleavage works for women instead of pick up lines...

@MA...

hi MA... wow.. what four matches she lost??? since last year...

@annie...

thanks for the concern... im back here at TW after that message...

@aube..

hi there... hows serena???... ofcourse ill vote for rere... but kimmy had a solid year and caro had an impressive one too..

but rere holds a lot more quality matches to boot (qf agaisnt vika, finals against juju, qf against sam, 4th round against maria) winning her slams...

kimmy had hers too (finals agianst juju, 3rd round against juju, finals against caro)...

it's a tough, tough one...

btw (off topic), how did the GOP capture congress???... was it the swing states??? ohio and illinois??? or has the tea party propaganda worked against obama??

Annie - true :)

slice Many thanks

I am soo happy that you have a one handed b/hand

I am a lefty with a good f.hand with top spin and was brought up on clay and I can move well on all surfaces.I can slide on a hard court too thought pfft to hard courts may I say no?

Hey sounds like we could be unbeatable no?

Also we are in that wonderful time age zone too may I add lol!

Remember 50 is the new 40 and my idol Borg still Rocks my world at age 54.

manuel I agree with your thoughts on the *G* discussion

Too many variables in the different era's for starters

I just look at a particular era and the players who competed in it

Though I know my friend NP may have other thoughts on this subject

manuel Please note I didnt write the full word out

I wonder why lol!

Yes, I remember Patrick, Maria has really been struggling when I saw her lose to a 40 year old with a bad back and Vesnina who has never won a title, I began to question if she can win a slam. Pat, to answer your question, the economy in the states is really bad and people tend to blame the party in office so that is Obama. When the reality is that any economists can tell you that it takes many years for an economy to work its way out of a deep recession, 12 years is the estimate I have seen. Its called the blame game. Many Americans suffering economically are looking for someone to blame for joblessness, bad debt and some problems they have gotten themselves into, so its the party in office. Blame game. They actually believe that a politician can fix their problems. Sure they can. Two years from now the same economic problems will exist.

Hey Pat,really nice to read you,it's not official yet but it looks like democrats screwd up big time and only me voted for them...

the preleminary results are all booming for the GOP,oh well,hopefully something good come out of their recapture of the House,we poor people are dying right now,hahahah...

Thank you for restoring order with Rere...take good care of you!!!in Manilla or somewhere else!!!

Samantha E,I'm very impressed with your analysis of the election and the democrats loosing,good girl!!!exactly what's happening,who said you could only sing Caro beautiful Scandinavian?Thumbs up with a wink!!!

Aube, I do pretty well in an American college, and can discuss more topics then just tennis.

Beth, are you telling me that women have actually known about the power of cleavage all along?! That's shocking, I tell you. Shocking!

I'm sure you do Samantha,don't mind my teasing too much...Much much respect to you,keep shining!!!

Samantha E, your girl Caro has really grown on me over the past year. First of all, she and I share an affinity for hitting against a wall. And some of you may remember that I defended her when she wore those Stella Somebody dresses at last year's US Open (or was it the Aussie Open? No matter. I still thought she was a knockout. And now, she has become quite the peach. I hope this doesn't sound sexist, but in my estimation she has the best legs in the game. And I'm not talking about thir shapeliness. I mean she has the firmest, most solid base, great leg strength and structure. It gives her great balance and stability, and agility. She has great posture, too. I think from the hips down she's tops, save for Kimmie, perhaps. Azarenka's not too far behind.

But, I feel that she needs to round ouot her game to stay at the top or to contend regularly for the major titles. She'll need to develop a better serve (mostly second) and learn to be more comfortable in the mid- to forecourt. That said, it's easy to underestimate the power of her mental game--and that would be a mistake.

If she is willing to continue to develop certain areas of her game over the next two or three years, she could be the one to beat. While conventional wisdom would suggest that grass will be her worst surface, I think her movement and balance should serve her well. If she can back up her defensive game with a bigger, beter service delivery, she can win on any surface.

I enjoy watching her compete, even if her game style doesn't particularly thrill me. What others before her seemingly from the same mold did that made them more compeeling (Evert, Hingis, to name two) was they brought something extra, something special, in their shotmaking ability. Evert had uncanny passing shots. The kind of shots that made you stare in disbelief, as she casually turned and flicked or blew her hair out of her face. Hingis could put the ball on a dime, and had soft hands at net. Just the kind of game to drive anyone who didn't move particularly well or who didn't have a big weapon nuts.

Let's see what Caro will bring to the table in terms of shotmaking. She's still so young, I expect her to succeed.

Thanks Slice-n-Dice, she is improving so much that I'm looking forward to next year. Need to study so thanks everyone. Enjoyed the discussion.

wow...its scary to think that zvonereva could go to no 1 backup with only one title the lower tier event in pattaya...but luckily wozniacki held on to it coz at least she won 6 titles..and still zvonereva seals the no 2 ranking which doesnt look right coz she only wins once this year, one small event ..okay she get to other six finals but there are other like kim(5 titles incl - 1 slam and 3 big or tier one 1 events )..even dementieve got 2 much bigger titles but still end at no 9, aravane won tier one in madrid, maria jose won in rome , jankovic won at indian wells , schiavone won 2 titles incl FO ...those are others who won bigger titles..
okay that probably the benefit of playing more tourneys so u can get to higher ranking but the current ranking just doesnt seem right if someone with once title victory can get to no 1 ranking or no 2 while others who won more quality title are still out of reach..
frankly i think..the year-end ranking should be
1 - kim clijster
2 - caroline wozniacki
3 - venus williams
4 - franchesca schiavone
5 - victoria azarenka
6 - elena dementieva
7 - samantha stosur
8 - vera zvonereva
9 - serena williams

This is like having a Nadal/Federer GOAT debate. It's pointless.

Wozniacki is #1 because Serena hardly played all year, and Cljister's just a little bit more than Serena. All the slamless #1s have come in the Williams era who have consistently played very little concentrating on slams by the very virtue of the gist of this article - only slams matter. So why play tour events?

If you want to blam someone blam the WS.

Dementieva never came close to being #1 all during the WS era and she is considered the best slamless player. With the age of the WS and the fact that Cljisters will only be around for a short while, I think Woz will eventually claim a number of slams. Henin will probably win Wimbledon and JJ may win the FO one day or more. Safina is another story.

The real story is Ivanovic, Schiavone and Kuznetsova (a multi-slam winner). Is there credibility any better because they are slam winners? It just goes to show, a slam win does not a major star make. But a major star must have a slam to make them a superstar.