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« Not So Angry Young Man Rome: Back to Marble, Almost »
Rome: Nadal vs. . . . Octavian?
Posted 05/06/2008 @ 10 :17 AM

6108This week TENNIS.com will be featuring one of our blog regulars, Asad Raza, who is in Rome for the men's Italian Open. He'll be writing here a couple times, on the home page, and over at Pete's as well—he's got this thing covered. Here's his first post.


Hi Steve,

As you know, today is first day of the Internazionali BNL d'Italia, also known as the ATP Masters Roma, the Internazionali del Foro Italico, the Italian Open, and simply as Rome, which is what I like to call it. I touched down a couple hours ago, promptly discovering that Richard Gasquet's horrow show of a season continues. But you gotta feel great for Luis "Mucho Lucho" Horna, an undersized warrior who always leaves it all out on the court, win or lose. [Insert mandatory reference to Roman gladiators here.] Homeboy Andreas Seppi took out another Frenchman, Fabrice Santoro, but the Roman papers are touting the chances of Simone Bolelli, for some reason (he's photogenic?).

It strikes me that Rome is currently the second most important tennis tournament to take place on the European continent, after Roland Garros. The fall indoor tournaments, Paris-Bercy and Madrid, take place too late in the year to determine much more than the scuffle for the last few spots in the year end Master's Cup. That prestigious grass-court tourney, Wimbledon, is actually held on an island just off the coast of France. The other two European Masters tournaments, Monte Carlo and Hamburg, mark the beginning and the end of the clay season's run-up to Roland Garros, but Rome is its beating heart.

Despite the charges that tennis is becoming ever more surface-specific, the top three contenders for this title are the world's top three players: wouldn't you say? During the season of terra rossa, however, the number one and two spots are effectively traded, and Nadal is as heavy a favorite here as any player will be at a tournament this year. Having won his fourth straight titles in Monte Carlo and Barcelona, Nadal has reminded onlookers that he is as close to invincible on this surface as Bjorn Borg once was. If he four-peats Rome and Roland Garros as well, he might be close to cementing "best claydog of all time" status, no?

Federer, meanwhile, is facing a year of tests. Surprisingly, he has won only one tournament, a relatively minor one in Estoril (apologies, Miguel); are his youthful pursuers finally catching up to him, or is it just the mono? The answer to that question, whether or not he can reestablish his alpha status, will be the largest macro-story in men's tennis for the rest of this year. Two weeks ago in Monte Carlo, I thought Fed produced his best tennis of the season, dispatching all comers until running into Nadal, the man who for three years has been single-handedly preventing him from utter domination. Their final played out in a familiar pattern: despite stretches of torrid play, Federer was ultimately outclassed by the better player on the surface. At this stage, I'm not sure there's much more information to gather about the matchup. It's gonna take a special match from Federer to win.

Novak Djokovic, meanwhile, raised new questions about his durability, and possibly even his honorability, by retiring to Federer in the semifinal in Monte Carlo, claiming dizziness. Djokovic, whose game translates well to clay, has yet to win a major title on it. But I suspect this should be a good place for him--many faster-court specialists have won in Rome, including Sampras and Agassi. The clay seems be firmer and the ball seems to move through the court faster than at Roland Garros (but bounce higher than on the damp deadness of Hamburg--ah the many varieties of clay!). For Rome's court speed alone, I think Djokovic should do well. With his U.S. Open final, and Aussie and Indian Wells titles, has a strong argument for being the best hardcourt player in the game right now. After Djokovic, I'm quite interested to see how Nikolay Davydenko will do--he'd be my next pick to win the tourney. What about yours?

This being the Eternal City, historical comparisons have been jumping into my head since my train ride into the city--hey, their AIRPORT is called Leonardo da Vinci. Historical analogy for Federer? Augustus Caesar, no doubt, presiding over and consolidating an empire in magisterial fashion. The only difference is that Augustus, then known as Octavian, emerged from a three-man scrap just to come to power. Federer, meanwhile, seems to be enmeshed in a very serious three-way just past his career's midpoint. Nadal? Clearly an Etruscan, the mysterious and slightly wild-seeming civilization that predated the Romans... okay, I'm stopping. Cappuccinos are really cheap here.

The other thing I'm looking forward to is the fact that the Stado Pietrangelo will be the main court this year due to construction (there's a nice piece about it by Jon Wertheim in TENNIS magazine this month). It's about the size of the Bullring at Roland Garros or the Grandstand at Flushing Meadows, the two courts almost all tennis writers agree are the best places for witnessing live tennis. The Stado Nicola P. is also a relic of Fascist Modernism--actually Rome is abuzz right now because a right-wing mayor with suspected ties to the Fascist youth movement was just elected. Anyway, I'm glad that perhaps the most unique court in tennis (marble bleachers? nude statuary???) is having a moment in the sun. It just seems perfectly appropriate for the national championship of a country that is so uniquely itself, so Italian (I know that sounds tautological), that you can never mistake it for anywhere else.

I mean, just looking at the wrapper of the delicious little cookie they gave me with my latest espresso: "Contains: sugar, pits of apricot, almond, white of egg." It only took four ingredients to make something unmistakably Italian and exceedingly enjoyable. Man, am I excited about this week!

Talk to you soon,
Asad

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Comments

first

First! :D

My apologies, I was second... :)

Nadal, Federer, then Djokovic & Davydenko sounds about right. It's difficult to imagine anyone else winning in Rome.

>... okay, I'm stopping. Cappuccinos are really cheap here.

lol, Asad.

Without a doubt great tourney... The king of clay is in top form and it's gonna be an improbable task stopping Rafa on his quest for another title. Would have to disagree with the author bringing Novak's "honorability"... Concern for someone's wellbeing and health should never be brought up as an issue! I know that tennis lovers were disappointed by the fact the match was finished the way it did, but there's gonna be many more matches to come and no one should compromise their season and especially their health... If everything works out the way we're expecting it to work out, in few days there's gonna be a rematch between these two. As ND's fan looking forward to a rematch in the semis! He who laughs last...

Mr. Asad -

Enjoy your time in Rome...I have the entire week off here at home so I'll see if I can spot you on TV.

And don't forget to comment on some culinary delicacies - Andrew F. and I am curious to know your thoughts, as you meet the qualifications of a 'foodie'.

GameSetMatch-

As a Federer fan I am also looking forward to another chance for Roger to beat Djokovic yet again and the way Federer played today against Cañas leads to think it is very likely. I just hope this time around Djokovic finishes the match and does not bring any excuses up when he is loosing though. Ups!

Nadal needs to break Borg's record of 6 French Opens in 8 years to be the greatest claydog ever. Nothing else he does will elevate him to No. 1. He's got to win 7, otherwise he'll be No. 2

omar,

Maybe you are right if you talk about number of titles, but don't you think that Nadal's current level on clay is way higher than Borg's ever was? I personally think so. To me, Nadal is already the best clay court player ever.

Asad -

Your caffeine-induced comparisons totally made me smile. And I laughed when you stopped yourself.

Of COURSE, that paragraph also got me thinking. I like comparisons like that, b/c a GOOD comparison can so perfectly capture the essence of the thoughts/feelings one is trying to convey without using too many words (something I often struggle with). I'm ashamed of myself, but I NEED comparisons, OK? ;)

So, I was thinking that Djoko is the best comparison to Octavian b/c I'm inclined to believe he will emerge 'the victor' of this 3-way scrapparooni (that's Italian for 'scrap'). It's via the 3-way that Djoko will rise to the top, like Octavian. And that's not so say he'll have the longest or greatest reign, but in *this* particular 3-horse race, whenever it ends, I'll be surprised if Djoko isn't out front.

Despite the fact that Fed *is* involved in this 3-way deal, seems to me he's better compared to Julius Caesar. As you said, Fed isn't coming to the forefront of things just now.

Sadly, Nadal as Antony seems apt (to me). A presence before Djoko/Octavian. Great friend to Caesar. etc etc etc

Wonder if a Brutus will show himself? Murray? ;) hee!

Even though I'm a fan of Djoko's tennis, I don't really care or necessarily *want* him to 'win' the 3-way 'war'. I think Rafa, Fed & Djoko will all do their share of winning for the next little while and I like that. But whether I like/want it or not, I think the 3-way ultimately ends with Djoko on top.

is Asad your pen name for Ray Stonada? Just want to keep it real here.

Swiss,

How are you ascertaining that Rafa's level of clay is higher than Borg's ever was?

What, because he plays with a modern racket and high powered strings that allow him to hit the ball harder and with more spin than what was available in Borg's day? As if Borg wouldn't be doing the same thing had he been born 20 years later. What has Rafa done that Borg couldn't or didn't do?

Rafa is 103-1 on clay the past 3 years? Great!!! Borg was 95-3 on clay over 3 years, and two of those losses were defaults.

Rafa's won 21 in a row at Roland Garros? Great, Borg won 28 in a row. I mean, I love Rafa, but I don't understand where you get your logic from.

The only diffference I notice between Rafa and Borg is that Borg was able to win his French Opens without even losing a set, where Rafa occasionally drops a few. And Borg was great on the other surfaces as well, while Rafa is only great on clay.

If Rafa had a wooden racket put in his hand and went back in a time machine 25 years to play Borg, are you just automatically giving that match to Rafa?

Are you just one of those guys who assumes anything newer is better?

The Rafa of Borg's era, Guillermo Vilas, got routinely crushed by Borg on clay. Granted, Rafa's more talented than Vilas was, but I just don't get your logic. If I had to guess I'd say you are not a Borg fan.

Why did they on Betfair bet about10 000 000 dollar on the match between Gonzalez and Tipsarevic (36 76 76) in Rome and "only" about 2 000 000 on Lapentti-Volandri (76 26 62) and less than 1 000 000 on the match between Karlovic-Mathieu (76 62)??? Anybody who have any idea?

HD

Love the read, Asad! Please do keep jotting down your thoughts and sending them along. But first and foremost, have yourself a memorable time.

As for betfair , i think there are couple of reasons.
1) high odds on Tipsarevic win, many people believed with the reason
2)Gonzo was tired after Munich but was great today though (so sorry for Janko...)
3. hottest match today, so everybody put their money on it

omar,

Don't get me wrong. I love Borg though I liked McEnroe's genius much better. Statistically Borg is still the best clay court player ever but what I expressed above is solely my opinion.

I just think that if the Borg from 1978 showed up today demanding a clay court showdown against Nadal he simply would not win. To me the Spaniard, his biceps and his babolat have too much power, and a whole bunch of elements to his game that I have not seen in any other clay courter before. His accuracy, his transition game and better hands at the net. Plus there is a difference in the way players today go for the lines with much more abandon than the guys from the past. Being respecful I don't believe Vilas would stand a chance against a guy like Djokovic or Davydenko to be honest.

Borg was vey tough mentally but Rafa is just as tough.
Borg was as strong as an ox but so is Rafa (if not stronger).
Borg was superfast but Rafa is world-class fast.

I think what separates Nadal from the pack of the best clay courters in history (including Borg) is that forehand. Very few weapons or shots have ever been as effective as his forehand on the surface.

Athletes nowadays are stronger, faster and fitter. Also, if you add up the better equipment ingredient to the equation it pretty much makes it.

asad is rocking in rome ??? how cool is that ! do you know that rosia is there all week with a credential at the for italico ??? lucky you !!!

cappucinos, gelati and anti pasti and you can feell like in heaven, imo !!! ok, maybe in the oposite order lol !

i hope you have a great time... the couple of times i've been there, you allways feel that dolce vita feeling... it's really cool and a bit mad at the same time... have you notice how many tiny cars like smart you find in the streets ??? and you still find some old cinquecentos !!! the romans are cool people, marat allways praises them ;)

if you need any tips for rome, email me !
best museums : galeria borghese, museo capitolino for the antic and 16th and 17th roman sculpture... if you go there don't miss the canova's sculptures...

enjoy the italian, food, art, tennis and way of life, and uhmm girl... asad :D
and pls make plenty of repports ! i like your writing on the eternal city ;)


Ray watching Horna!!!!!!!!!!!

Great stuff, Ray. Reading you makes this tournament 10 times better. Ok, maybe a hundred. You get the picture. :)

@ SwissMaestro,
with all due respect to Fed and your opinion, i don't bring the fact that he smashed your player in Montreal, and pummeled him in A.O. (where FedEx brought the mono issue AS AN EXCUSE... let's be realistic, his game didn't look any weaker then it is today)and not mentioning the fact that he avoided him in Indian Wells (lost to Fish??? again let's get real, never ever would a player of FedEx magnitude lose to a guy like Fish unless... i'll leave the blank space, but we all know why). Everything aside, i'm here not to argue with u who has achieved more (that's not an issue), nor am i here to argue the undeniable greatness of Roger, let it be known that Nole feels the same, i'm here to let u know that Nole didn't make any excuses nor is ever going to, and more importantly to let u know that payback is a bit!@#%... :) We shall see who's the one standing after their clash.
p.s. yeah, real class act telling someone (his box) to be quiet after a clear mistake line umpire made on the very same ball in question! Love the fact how quickly he came over to the line a swept aside the mark which indicated that the ball was in... class act!!! :P I keep loosing respect more and more each day for your beloved one.

Asad/Mr. Stonada;

What a delightful introduction to proceedings; love your classical references.

As far as Djokovic goes, I am sure you are correct that he will do well on the fast courts of Rome, barring any headaches, sniffles, dizzy spells, backaches, allergies, etc.

But I don't think that his OZ and Indian Wells titles necessarily means he's the best hardcourter in the world right now. I think that distinction still belongs to Cesear. Render unto Cesear what is his. Roger definitely was ill during the early part of this year. From here on in I guess we're going to see where the two really stand.

Like everyone loves Djokovic. That's exactly why thousands of Australians were rooting for Tsonga the day of the OZ Open final right? I wonder what it would have been like should Roger have reached the final.

I so support Federer's act of telling the Djokovic family to keep quiet for all they have said, they have big mouths you know? Again, not vey much liked by many.

So ok, Djokovic's sportsmanship is greater than Federer given the fact that his retired in how many matches? gosh! he's done it so many times I can't even recall! Federer has been in the tour far longer and HAS NEVER retired from a match. Sure Djokovic beat him in Australia and Montreal but Federer never retired, he finished those 2 matches. Also Roger beat beat him twice in Montecarlo, once in Dubai, once in Austrlia as well, once in the US Open, once in a Davis cup tie, wanna continue??

Federer has carried himself in such a way no other champion ever has. Djokovic has carried himself to the doctor in plenty of matches when he is about to loose them, that is very lame...

Like everyone loves Djokovic. That's exactly why thousands of Australians were rooting for Tsonga the day of the OZ Open final right? I wonder what it would have been like should Roger have reached the final.

I so support Federer's act of telling the Djokovic family to keep quiet for all they have said, they have big mouths you know? Again, not vey much liked by many.

So ok, Djokovic's sportsmanship is greater than Federer given the fact that his retired in how many matches? gosh! he's done it so many times I can't even recall! Federer has been in the tour far longer and HAS NEVER retired from a match. Sure Djokovic beat him in Australia and Montreal but Federer never retired, he finished those 2 matches. Also Roger beat beat him twice in Montecarlo, once in Dubai, once in Austrlia as well, once in the US Open, once in a Davis cup tie, wanna continue??

Federer has carried himself in such a way no other champion ever has. Djokovic has carried himself to the doctor in plenty of matches when he is about to loose them, that is very lame...

GameSetMatch-

Sure man. Djokovic is so loved that is exactly why thousands of Aussies were rooting for Tsonga the day of the OZ Open final.

I so support Roger for telling the Djokovic family to shut up for all the things they have said. They have a big mouth you know? and their kid is not even no.2!

Sure Djokovic beat Federer in Montreal and Australia but Roger finished the matches while being ill, can you say the same about Djokovic? I don't think so, I mean the guy has retired from so many matches when he is loosing that I cannot even recall them all. Federer has been in the tour for far longer and HAS NEVER RETIRED FROM A MATCH! Now that is sportsmanship.

Plus Federer has pounded Djokovis 6 times to Djokovic 2 times. There is SOOO MUCH YOUR BELOVED ONE has to accomplish before he can compare to Federer it is not even funny. Roger carries himself in such a way no other champion ever has. Djokovic carries himself too! to the doctor that is...

forgive me for the double posting..

SwissMaestro:

The point that omar made was that if you took Rafa's Babolat away, and gave him a 1978 wooden raquet, he wouldn't beat Borg.

GameSetMatch:
It seems you dont follow tennis much. When a player sweeps a mark on clay it means that they are conceding the point, thus Federers act was to concede. I believe that you have a Bias towards Djokovic that impoverishes your vision of the game. BTW i am not a Fed fan at all, but the sky is blue and the sun is bright no matter how you look at them.

FedFan-

I just don't know. I'd put my money on Nadal, I can tell you that much. But you know what? The same issue was brought up with Federer and the great grass court players from the past. Then Federer went on to the tournament in Halle in 2006 and played an exhibition set against a local player. I don't remember who but he did it with a wooden racquet and mastered it right away. He won the set 6-1 I think.

GameSetMatch:

Slams:

Fed - 12
Djoko - 1

'nuff said.

Retirement boy, haha!

SwissMaestro:

That means nothing. How would Fed do with a wooden raquet vs 1980s McEnroe? Not well I think!

FedFan-

Cliff Drysdale (who played against and beat eve the great Rod Laver) sais whatever the constraints 'Roger would have eaten those guys for lunch'. Heck! The McEnroe itself said that at the most he could have possibly beat Federer 2 or 3 times! I thinl I'll take their word over yours my friend plus I am Federer fan (can't you tell?) haha

Well first on for most, u can't continue cause u just about mentioned all the wins your beloved one got over him! Correction u DID MENTION THEM ALL, so as i said u can't continue... Now, let's not forget the "little" fact that most of those wins came when ND was a boy and still up and coming, things have changed in a meanwhile... in their last four clashes the score is 2-2 (including MC). Next, get your facts straight, most of the matches he retired (and i'm talking over 75%) he was leading (like the last match he retired, where the guy played Ice Man - Davydenko, he was leading 2-0 in sets and 4-0 in the 3rd set, where you could simply see that the guy couldn't carry on due to fatigue and illness). According to u he should compromise his carrier and should put his health in jeopardy just because u think he should... Wow, u must be very successful man with great achievements cause it seems to me u never failed at anything, God forbid quit something... Next, what his family got to do with his tennis? See for a change his family is very supportive of him and what he does, and big deal if his mom said something, that maybe and just maybe, were inappropriate ("the king is dead..."). Every mother thinks that her child is the best, and here evidently his mother has every single reason to be so! She should be proud of her son, especially at that moment, her child made tennis history at the age of 20!!! He has achieved greatness in such short time, rising like a phoenix from the dust, considering all the obstacles he had to overcome to be where he is today! What's up with you guys and your demeanor towards someone's success??! Let me tell u something else, Nole's got army of fans, and it doesn't matter that u or someone else don't like him, there are millions of us who do like him, even more so because of people like u and your shallowness! Btw, where was RF when he was 20 (yes the guy is still 20, should turn 21 this month), and for the record he'll never ever reach the status of GOAT! And one more thing, ND is here to stay for many, many, many years to come, whereas your "old man" (tennis years we're talking) might be done as soon as this year!

GameSetMatch:
Rafa had more slams than Djoko at 20, and more titles....and waaaay more class...*sticks toungue out!

Grea piece of writing. Tennis mixed with history, food and other observations about Italy. Looking forward to reading more of your coverage.

GameSetMatch-

The age factor means nothing, there are late bloomers as well as there are early bloomers that burn out way too soon. For all I care Djokovic STILL IS a one slam wonder.

Millions liking Djokovic? Tell me, is that exactly why he is rooted against virtually everytime he plays? or is it that the rest of the world is wrong? The latter seems to be your mindset.

A mother should be allowed to say whatever because she is proud of her son? Well, it would be interesting so see what Lynette Federer has to say about Roger, mmmm oh wait! Her son is more than likely the best tennis player ever and she still remains silent!

Didn't Djokovic also retired against Nadal when he was 2 sets down in the QF's of the 2006 French Open and then went on to say he felt he was in control of the match? haha speaking of non-sense and pure ridiculous...

Djokovic has a great game but not te right attitude off the court. He would much more respected if he respected other players more, specially the onew ahead of him. The gy talks about being number one and there is a greater gap between Nadal and him than the one there is between Nadal and Federer for heaven sake!

Look ain't gonna argue with u guys, as i said your little princess is about to exit tennis scene, u all know it and u all fear that it might come sooner then u hoped it wouldn't. But unfortunately ND got his teeth deep into your dinosaur, got him bleeding and he can't heel! Haters will hate, and the players will play! Orpheo my friend don't you worry about my tennis knowledge, and u should distinguish between motions of clearing the line for conceding the point and covering marks of a clear winner. Question for u: why not correct the linesman and say the ball was in (like it was) instead of brushing it aside and moving on like the ball was out? See, this is something a true champion would never do! And another thing, what rafa's got to do with this??? U brought Rafa into the picture , and mentioned his slams?!! Rafa is a gentleman and true champion unlike someone else, and there is no need to drag him into this debate! my question was very clear and straight forward, where was RF when he was 20??? Get with the program, stay on course and don't involve other great champions into this... Btw, Estoril Open is so big right now i think they should make it a master shield (no disrespect to the tournament itself, i hope people will get the idea where i was going with that...)

GameSetMatch-

Dinosaur? little princess? beeding and cannot heel?

What is up with the water of the place you live at??? You are almost as funny as your little clown making impersonations of other players just to be better liked. He tries hard I'll give you that hahaha! simply pathetic...

Gamesetmatch,

In clay court tennis a player rubs out the mark to indicate that the ball was indeed good, and that the call was wrong. it is a sign of sportsmanship.
When Fed rubbed out the mark, he did so in a gesture of sportmanship.
relax...

The place is T.O. Ontario and the water is fresh and clear my friend! Oh boy, i'm getting tired of this... i don't wanna be rude or impolite but do you have early childhood traumas with all this hate u venomously spitting out??! Look, i know enough people here that like the guy a lot, in Serbia (and for that matter many people from the neighboring countries such as Croatia, Monte Negro, Greece etc.) itself he has over 10 million loving fans and so on... As for the impersonations the guy did it because he was asked to, and definitely not to humiliate and disrespect other players, but for FUN, if u know what that word means! One slam wonder??! See, u're getting the point, that's FUN-ny! :) Enjoy the game and don't trouble yourself petty things, it's supposed to be fun! Let's not carry on with this, u don't like ND (cocky, arrogant...), i think RF is a dinosaur, princess, primadona and let's leave it as that... For me ND doesn't have to win 12 slams to like him, u might have different criteria, but i guarantee ya his slam count won't stop at one! Number "1" is where he's gonna be very soon... :) Regards!

GameSetMatch,


"Number "1" is where he's gonna be very soon"
------------------------------

Alright! until then you and his bast number of fans should remain hopeful! hahaha

No hate, you are speaking non sense, that is it. Ontario uh? greetings from NYC...

So you think Federer is all those things? Well I think Djokovic is an arrogant, cocky and spoiled inmature kid who is every bit as out of place as his parents. He probably was told he was better than anyone else without having to proove it when he was little, guess what? YOU ARE WRONG! Federer is the best until someone else prooves it otherwise and Djokovic is just not in the same league right now wether you like to admit it or not.

Maestro,
my friend, let's not get dilusional now... Let's get real, u're talking about different leagues??? Come on now... Both of us know that ain't true, their level of play is about same and i'm not gonna put ND ahead of RF in the level of play (cause that would be unfair to RF) but i'm putting him ahead cause of his youth and self belief (which many people might perceive as cocky and arrogant). But for me that very same self belief (arrogance, u might call it...) is the driving force that made him what he is today, and it doesn't matter what u, me or anyone else might think of it.
T.O. -> Toronto, Ont, Canada! btw, NYC rocks, and it seemed to me that NY adopted ND quite well, i'm even more baffled by your dislike for ND??!

"Next, get your facts straight, most of the matches he retired (and i'm talking over 75%) he was leading (like the last match he retired, where the guy played Ice Man - Davydenko, he was leading 2-0 in sets and 4-0 in the 3rd set, where you could simply see that the guy couldn't carry on due to fatigue and illness). "

2008 Monte Carlo SF Federer 3-6 2-3 RET not leading
2008 DC RUS vs SRB Davydenko 6-4 6-3 4-6 RET leading
2007 Wimbledon SF Nadal 6-3 1-6 1-4 RET not leading
2006 Umag F Wawrinka 6-6(1) RET tied
2006 Roland Garros QF Nadal 4-6 4-6 RET not leading
2005 Roland Garros R64 Coria 4-6 2-6 2-3 RET not leading

Percentage is definitely not over 75%


I still think he's cute though and he will mature and achieve his dreams

Oh and I forgot, this "Ice Man - Davydenko, he was leading 2-0 in sets and 4-0 in the 3rd set' is a fallacy as well LOL

He was leading the sets 2-1 and not 2-0 and he retired during the fourth set not third.

GameSetMatch, "and it seemed to me that NY adopted ND quite well," You are right here. Even I was rooting for him (though not rooting against RF then). But that was last year and before the present saga emerged. I wonder if NY will continue the adoption love this year :-S

I like the energy on these comments today. It's starting to get a little testy, like a Fed/Djokovic matchup.

Swiss Maestro, 6 of the top 20 male players used wooden rackets for a day for a story USA Today was doing, including Djokovic, and they all said they couldn't play with the wood. They had no power, spin, and complained of arm pain.

And I saw that match Fed played with the wood. It was a glorified practice session. They weren't even playing, it was a polite session of morning warm-ups, so to use that as a justification for how well Fed or others could play with the wood is not valid.

The reason players go for the lines more now is because the rackets allow them to hit with more control and power at the same time.

Swiss, you're a good guy but you have clarity issues when it comes to this whole topic.

Look, he had breathing problems as we all know quite well. In 2006 he had a surgery done in Italy and since then more or less his breathing is alright. In 2006 QF versus Nadal this was an 18 year old kid for crying out loud (without the surgery being performed)! Last year Wimbledon Semis, the guy virtually played every day of the second week (due to weather issues), and didn't have an easy draw, with no time to rest and blisters on his feet can u blame the guy??! No excuses but let's completely understand the situations. It's not like the guy didn't try... No matter what, i still love the guy, and know his time to shine is here!

@ avid sports fan, read it well before u try to stick it to me again :)
Davis Cup -> i said he was up 2-0 in sets and was leading 4-0 in the third, u can check that, when his level of play started dropping rapidly. He had a flu virus, i'm amazed that he lasted that long and at that point started missing shots that he normally makes and was making through out the match, but fatigue and illness kicked in, and he lost that set, as a matter of fact i think(don't quote me on this) he dropped 6 straight games and lost the set. At that point (2-1 in sets) he decided he had enough and he couldn't go on...

"No excuses..." Rightly said ;-) Let's just all chill and allow the rackets (albeit not wooden LOL) to do the talking as the season progresses

GameSetMatch, "@ avid sports fan, read it well before u try to stick it to me again :)
Davis Cup -> i said he was up 2-0 in sets and was leading 4-0 in the third, u can check that, when"

right but again the complete stats are better right? and I was right about the others right? wrt => and i'm talking over 75%)

No worries ;)
as u said let the rackets do all the talking! LOL "(albeit not wooden LOL)" :D

According to gamesetmatch, when Djokovic is down 1 or 2 sets and/or 1 or 2 breaks, he's somehow leading in his fantasy, delusional world of the one he decides to live in. gamesetmatch is both biased and wrong/lying/inaccurate.

Thanks for all the comments... D-Wiz I thought that was a fascinating adjustment of my analogy. Sherlock, nice to hear from ya, buddy! And nice one, Tokyo Tom. Okay, I'm off to read Steve's new post... and then get some sleep...

Roger is as big a favorite in Hamburg clay as Rafa is in Paris, Monte Carlo, Rome and Barcelona (Roger has won 4 career titles there, as many as Rafa anywhere, Rafa has 0 titles there, Roger beat Rafa easily there last year when Roger Federer was tired). Roger hasn't lost any grasscourt match anywhere to anyone in 6 years (better and longer than Rafa's clay streak). Roger's favored to win his 6th straight Wimbledon and 5th straight US Open this year, both longer streaks than any of Rafa's on clay. That is all undeniable facts.
Roger's also been the World's best overall and #1 player, well earned and deserved, for the longest straight streak in tennis singles history, men's and women's both, 222 straight weeks and counting. That too is undeniable facts.
Also, every single match Roger loses to Rafa on clay he's close or very close to winning them, and does win and comes very close to winning many other sets against him. If losing close match after close match to Rafa on clay is being outclassed by Rafa on clay, then what is Rafa on hardcourts and grass against Roger, often getting demolished in every match by the much better overall player
who easily defeats him many times on every other surface, and even once so far on clay in Hamburg? That, to be honest, accurate, realistic, objective and factual, is truly being outclassed by Roger on every surface where Roger is just simply the better player, no disrespect, but rather simply facts, to Rafa.

Yes, frequently and consistently proven facts are tough, but necessary, to hear sometimes, especially by people who definitely need a reality and factual check. It's important to be honest and factual, not biased, opinionated, dishonest, inaccurate, etc. That's just wrong on every level, although it doesn't stop some people from sayimg and thinking it anyway, unfortunately.

Dear anonymous @ 7:04 PM and 7:09 PM
"Yes, frequently and consistently proven facts are tough, but necessary, to hear sometimes, especially by people who definitely need a reality and factual check. It's important to be honest and factual, not biased, opinionated, dishonest, inaccurate, etc."

I totally agree so let's look at it this way, Nadal won the FO in his debut @ 2005 right? Roger has not won any of his slams at his debut appearance right?

True Roger has won Wimbledon for the past 5 years but to say that Rafa was "often getting demolished in every match by the much better overall player who easily defeats him many times on every other surface" is also a "fallacy of hasty generalization" based on your own statements because that is not the case (wrt easily defeats IW 2005, and Wimbledon 2007 are two examples that I won't classify as easy defeats).

"Rafa easily there last year when Roger Federer was tired)." I think this should be the other way round (Rafa is the one that had played more matches and more tournaments up until this point in that clay season). That is not to take anything away from RF's win.

So like you rightly said "It's important to be honest and factual, not biased, opinionated, dishonest, inaccurate, etc."

I said many times and often, not always, that Roger easily beats Rafa and outclasses Rafa in his wins, even on Hamburg clay. It is accurate, honest and factual statements. Not always, I said, but usually is true, as I said..

Dear anonymous @ 7:52 PM

I totally agree with "accurate, honest and factual statements." They have met 15 times and all the stats are below. where does your definition of "many times and often" fit into these stats?

So like you rightly said "It's important to be honest and factual, not biased, opinionated, dishonest, inaccurate, etc."

I hereby rest my case :)

2008 Monte Carlo Monaco Clay F Nadal 7-5 7-5

2007 Tennis Masters Cup China Hard S Federer 6-4 6-1

2007 Wimbledon Great Britain Grass F Federer 7-6(7) 4-6 7-6(3) 2-6 6-2

2007 Roland Garros France Clay F Nadal 6-3 4-6 6-3 6-4

2007 Hamburg Germany Clay F Federer 2-6 6-2 6-0

2007 Monte Carlo Monaco Clay F Nadal 6-4 6-4

2006 Tennis Masters Cup China Hard S Federer 6-4 7-5

2006 Wimbledon England Grass F Federer 6-0 7-6(5) 6-7(2) 6-3

2006 Roland Garros France Clay F Nadal 1-6 6-1 6-4 7-6(4)

2006 Rome Italy Clay F Nadal 6-7(0) 7-6(5) 6-4 2-6 7-6(5)

2006 Monte Carlo Monaco Clay F Nadal 6-2 6-7(2) 6-3 7-6(5)

2006 Dubai U.A.E. Hard F Nadal 2-6 6-4 6-4

2005 Roland Garros France Clay S Nadal 6-3 4-6 6-4 6-3

2005 Miami FL, U.S.A. Hard F Federer 2-6 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-3 6-1

2004 Miami FL, U.S.A. Hard R32 Nadal 6-3 6-3

Asad! I'm so psyched your posting from Roma! Man between you and roseangel - I've got serious European tennis tourney envy... Sigh.

Don't forget to have a wee bit of fun there. :)

Let's face fact. Nadal will win all the titles sooner or later. Clay is his surface but!!! that's not saying he wont win a hard court slam. It's just a matter of time. Rogar is boring ..pls give us more nadal ..Rogar who?

Gamesetmatch:

Are you drinking while you write these comments? Federer a dinosuar?

Bravo, Ronaldo

GameSetMatch seems to have an uncanny ability to make deductions from facts that are absurd.

Didn't Fed make like 15 straight semifinals? Jealousy takes many ugly forms.

Nole is an extremely talented, astute and motivated player, who is poised for greatness. If his game is so evolved and multi-dimensional at 20 yrs, its not hard to imagine how good it would be in the next 3-4 years. He just needs to improve his stamina and endurance.
At the risk of sounding sacreligious, i think he has an equal chance of winning Wimby as Federer and is the favourite for the US Open.

Asad, very interesting read.

Wishing speedy recovery to Amelie Mauresmo!:-)

Its interesting to see KADs in defense for their guys just throw in fantasy as facts (i.e. gamesetmatch 75% retire while djoko leading fantasy). Makes me wonder the use of KADs for die-hard fans(in reference to that Jonestown case) is sometimes so true for some fans.

Anyway, I believe gamesetmatch is also not a tennis watching fan for long and doesn't know the meaning of erasing a mark on clay is an act of sportsmanship. I particularly find the following line funny, and it show how far a kad will go to distort fact.

Quote:
"Orpheo my friend don't you worry about my tennis knowledge, and u should distinguish between motions of clearing the line for conceding the point and covering marks of a clear winner. Question for u: why not correct the linesman and say the ball was in (like it was) instead of brushing it aside and moving on like the ball was out? See, this is something a true champion would never do!"
Unquote

Not only does gamesetmatch put down a fellow poster with the correct tennis knowledge, he distort the above fact by saying Fed moves away like the ball was out after erasing the mark. The fact is actually the reverse, Fed, move over to replay the point. This single distortion of fact from a very honorable action to something totally the opposite, is a very scary thought.

No wonder Seles got stab by a crazy steffi kad.....

Roger is an example of how some1 should condust himself on court. In women's tennis i like the way Venus conducts herself when playing.

yeah Limbo, okaaaaaaay buddy, "No wonder Seles got stab by a crazy steffi kad..... " ?????

i'm sure djoko will...... eventually ...mature...

federer a princess?? dinosour?? wierd metaphors to use on a tennis player (strange images in my head of dinosours playin tennis)...let alone world no.1..

just an opinion lol, we're all good friends here, having a friendly discussion :P

I personally would reserve the word princess for SERENA!
As for dinosaur i think Santoro deserves it the best!..lol

and we're (i'm) excited too you're there, asad! i was bummed when it seemed that steve wouldn't be reporting from rome this year. his posts from rome last year were, for me, some of the best stuff he's written here. tennis and travelogue combined. i just relished them.

but now that you're there, then it's all good. looking forward to the rest of your posts. enjoy!

You obviously don't read my posts properly, or maybe you can't read them. They are perhaps too logical and factual for you. A typically biased Rafa fan, avid sports fan is.
7 of Roger's 9 losses to Rafa are on clay, and only 1 of his 6 wins are on clay. Almost all of his losses are close or very close on his worst and Rafa's best surface, and in many of them (including the last one) he blew leads he earned and wins against Rafa before losing. Of Roger's 6 wins so far versus Rafa, most of them, most is true, are blowout wins for Roger, even his one win on clay. If they played more on hardcourts and grass and less on clay, Roger would undeniably have the head to head lead. That is undisputable facts, avid sports fan.
Who has won 12 career singles Grand Slams, who has been an all-time World #1 straight weeks and years record, who has the longest singles unbeaten streak on any surface, who hits the most winners in his matches in the world (even more versus Rafa on clay than Rafa does)?
The answer is one man for all these questions. No, not Rafa or Novak or Andy. Roger Federer has all those guys beat ccombined in the #1 ranking, grand slam titles, longest (in length of time) unbeaten streak on any surface (grass), etc. It's all undisputable facts.
rg.nadal. In his career, Novak has only reached one US Open final, no wins, 1 Wimbledon semi, no final, one FO semi, no final, 1 Australian Open win, no other semis.
It's undisputable facts that Roger's career results and success are much, much greater on every single surface at every single tournament and Grand Slam in the whole world than Novak's are. Therefore, it's undisputable facts no matter how biased and dishonest rg.nadal is, that Roger is a huge favorite to win at all these tournaments over Novak, Rafa and everyone else, no matter what anybody wants to think. Opinions are irrelevant.
Proven and undisputed facts and reality are necessary and important to mention and understand and accept as the undeniable truth they are. There's nothing to discuss or disagree with. Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. Obviously facts have more merit and hold more relevance. That too is undeniable facts.

This morning against Darcis, Djokovic was thinking if he should feel tired and retire from the match when he got broke in the first set but then he broke back and realized that he did not want to feel tired and retire...

Dear anonymous,

"You obviously don't read my posts properly, or maybe you can't read them. They are perhaps too logical and factual for you."

If there is anyone biased here, you would definitely fall into that category and please learn to be respectful on how you address people even if you think you are the "more logical and factual than they are" You seem to have more based on opinions than the facts because there are counter arguments wrt the points you made about the 9 losses.

1. you said "more than 75% of the time" and the facts don't reflect this

2. when you saw that the facts did not reflect this percentage, you took turned your discussion to other achievements which no one (at least not me) dispute sin any way e.g. being no. 1 for 222 weeks consecutively, having 12 GS etc etc etc. These facts that no one is disputing and will be on the record books. So no need to sweat about them.

So it will be nice to how "anti-biased" you are towards Nadal and based on the facts give the guy some respect and credits that he deserves.

yup, he almost quit... but then he changed the gear and left Darcis in the dust behind him... and what know that a great champion Rafa lost in the second round??? Some of you guys will gloat and find reasons to undermine his dominance on clay... Still doesn't change the fact the Rafa's the best clay court player and everyone's allowed to slip and fall once in a while... Even Rafa and Novak... But boldly predict that RF won't take this tourney...

GameSetMatch,

Maybe Djokovic could learn something from Rafa! no? He did not retire and he DID HAVE a reason to unlike your boy. Federer will not take this tournament? He might not but I really can't wait for him to pound that cocky Serbian to rub it your face!

unless he retires before they meet of course, it would not surprise anyone at all whatsoever...

avid sports fan, you are a blatant liar. Blatant liar. I never once said 75% of the time about anything. That was somebody else entirely. Get your facts straight. It's impossible to interpret something I said in a way I never said it. Read all my posts again, and you will again be proven wrong, and if that doesn't teach you a lesson and send you a message, then nothing will ever. You certainly need one, being as biased and dishonest and insulting of me as you are. If you can (are you capable of understanding them for what they are?, probably not) read all the facts I said you will see that for yourself. You are probably illiterate, so you can't understand the plain English facts I write. You're not capable.

Dear anonymous,

I'm sorry for quoting you for saying 75% because like you rightly pointed out you did not say that. I made a mistake and I am owning up to it but to say "avid sports fan, you are a blatant liar. Blatant liar." is totally out of line.

I love Asad's posts! The line about the cookie just kills me.

And I'm learning about Italian history too.

Grazie!

I am sorry to say that the ATP finally has what its "smart guys" have wanted. Players start falling because of this year's calendar.I'm absolutely amazed seeing how they only are interested in their own financial success, without caring a tenth of a second about the tennis players in the field. This year's calendar is mad, is suicide for any player. There's no need to wonder why the big names have early exits or why so many of them finish their matches in pain, with injuries, after having received medical treatment. Tennis is no more a sport for the gifted players; it isn't a fair competition any more. The countless tournaments one should attend in order not to lose contact with the first positions (ex. last month and this month, when there are four major clay tournaments in a row), lead to injuries. And I'm afraid there are still more to come.
This year, given the Olympics, is a special year, I agree, but the calendar should have been done wisely, in order not to affect every single player, to blow them up. The ATP is definitely responsible for this scandalous situation, and we all shall "thank" them for turning the white sport into a wide marathon. But, I also realize that the governing body is too ignorant to care for this. They will probably wake up, if they will ever do, when nothing can be saved any more.
Maybe in the future someone will choose thinking about what can be done without hurting the ones that are directly involved.
It has been said that some players haven't done their work in some matches, but I guess we need first to think "what if they couldn't really do it?" It's sad to admit that players are mentally and physically tired. It hurts.
And it hurts that nobody cares for the players that really have something to offer to the big public. They are heroes, but they aren't treated properly.
This tournament is the latest proof, but it's far from being the first, and, unfortunately, there's no chance to be one of the last.
I may seem mad, but I do hope that one day, things will change, before being too late….

players are treated like fouls, nobody cares about them anymore!!! It's horrible what happens today in tennis!!!

i agree with avid sports fan at 8:01pm....there was no need to call a person a "blatant liar"...twice...when they simply made a mistake...

just gloating.... :)))))))
as i said we would see who was gonna stand last... Guess what...
Ave Novak!!!

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