Of course he is

Whatever you say

*rolls eyes*

I will have a proper discussion with someone who actually has ever played the game and as I have said before I am quite aware of anyone who has taken steriods and have seen first hand the damage they can do on a short term and long term basis.

If that is the case if Rafa his kidneys by now would be stuffed and he would need dyalisis machine or dead and I am not joking.

Moving On ASAP

actually i play tennis
and why steroids?
there are other things like clenbuterol or nadrolone
but dont ask me
ask the expert rafael nadal

NP Thanks for the score

Who are they playing by the way

Gee isnt there a site for Trolls

This is a proper tennis site I thought

AM, the Kings. A very young team (in terms of their age, BTW, not their franchise history).

Np Thanks

What quarter are they in pls?

yes for nadal trolls
here is the link http://tennisworld.typepad.com/
"site for trolls like you"
see the truth, doping exist in tennis, nadal dopes, but also other players

AM, the 4th Q. The Kobies are gonna take this. Fisher just made a couple of big plays.

AA I saw the message you left last night regarding the split between Ana and her coach I must of missed reading it.Thanks

Kobe's got 30 pts, 10 rebounds and 12 assists. Mwahahahahahahaha! LeBron who?

Also, some people are genetically wired to be more muscular than others...some put muscle on much easier too. Mesomorph and ectomorphs to put it roughly. It can be a really dramatic difference in body composition even with a same amount of working out.

Mr Bodo, you say Rochus made "disturbing allegations". My question is, for whom are the allegations disturbing? Doping players? Tennis officials covering up failed tests? Doping authorities who have been outed as inadequate? Sponsors? "Journalists" (cheerleaders) like you? Who?

As a tennis fan, I am certainly not disturbed by Rochus's allegations. They are enlightening if anything.

Wow, Artest must've worked on his fadeaways. That was almost Kobe-like.

The Kobies win 112-100. Slacked off a bit too much at the end, but good win nonetheless.

And I'm outtie. Later.

temes Thank you for that post and you are 100% correct

I myself have not that body type and I have worked out with weight for many years.Though my g/friend a body builder who I have trained with on and off for years has the exact opposite body type to me and can gain muscle easy.

There is no doping issue in tennis until there is a doping issue in tennis. But the shadow is getting larger and larger. If and when it all comes down, it's gonna hurt the game really badly.

You can try and attack Rochus all you want... but you'll have to try to shoot down all the other messengers while you are at it. You can try to pretend it's one dodgy petty man if that makes you feel better.
And when this thing really hits the fan big time, don't you dare pretend that there was no smoke to warn about the fire.

JOHN MCENROE 1992:
“You can tell when someone has been on steroids,” he said… “A guy bulks up, has a new body and never gets tired.”
He said athletes on steroids heal more quickly after an injury, recover faster after grueling matches and work much harder during training.
“You see these guys or girls who come onto the tour talking about their new training programs and their diets where they eat this or that new thing…but they’ll never tell you about the drugs they took."

MAHESH BHUPATI:
“The tennis players themselves have brought it (anti-doping rules) upon themselves. A lot of players have been cheating. The players have to cooperate to weed out instances of cheating from sports,”

ANDRE ILIE:
"The problem is so bad that you might as well just let them use it and when players see people dying on court and exploding, then it's going to change their minds.
The sport has become so competitive and powerful it is just a matter of fitness and who will outlast who out there.
People are just happy to sacrifice their health for three years of fame."

JOHN MENDOZA
The chief executive of the Australian Sports Drug Agency, John Mendoza
said tennis was approaching a similar crisis that swimming faced at the farcical 1994 Rome world championships and that cycling encountered before the Tour de France drug busts in 1997.
"Players can use short-acting steroids in combination with human growth hormone which will produce muscle mass and enormous power, and while they can stop just before a competition and test clean, they still get the performance benefit of the drugs," Mendoza said.
......
"The signs of substance abuse among leading players are self evident. The dynamics of the game have changed. Tennis officials are refusing to accept they have a problem."
......
2009:
"I didn't say it (in 2002) just because I felt like a bit of notoriety. I said it because there was so much evidence from within the sport that things were right off the rails. "I had been hearing from 1997 that they (ITF and ATP) were burying results, and the WTA wasn't testing at all."

NICOLAS ESCUDE:
"To say that tennis today is clean you have to be living in a dream world.
When you're playing on clay and after 50 shots the guy on the other side of the net is fresh and waiting for you to serve, while you're in agony, it's mind-blowing."
Escude slammed Miles for his passive attitude towards doping, and branded measures taken against those caught as ridiculous.
"What I don't understand is that, if a company's accounts show bad results, the boss is always the first one to get fired," he said.
"So when I hear today that Mark Miles is untouchable, I begin to wonder."
And he claimed that the top tennis players were keeping a lid on the problem because the ATP has dossiers on them.
"The problem is that the ATP is lead by Americans, while 85 percent of players are Europeans and the money comes from Europe," he said.
"It's a mafia that's in place. If these dossiers were exposed, tennis would be in a bad state for six months. But out of the bad would come some good."

NATHALIE TAUZIAT:
"I won't name individuals," she said, "but it's clear that doping exists in tennis and needs to be stopped. I have no hard evidence, but all I will say is that you don't have to have a degree in medicine to see that some of the players have transformed themselves almost overnight. It's time people stopped taking us for a bunch of fools. I don't care how much training or gym work you do, there is no way anyone can suddenly become stronger and faster in the space of a couple of months. How is it that some girls disappear for a few weeks, and then return looking totally different?"
"We also need more blood- testing if we are to get to the bottom of this growing problem. I'm particularly concerned for the younger players. They're often the victims of unscrupulous people, who try to sell products which allow them to recuperate more quickly. It must stop."

JIM COURIER:
"EPO is the problem," Jim Courier told Newsweek in 1999, referring to erythropoietin, a blood-boosting drug that became ubiquitous in cycling in the 1990s. "I have pretty strong suspicions that guys are using it on the tour. I see guys who are out there week in and week out without taking rests. EPO can help you when it's the fifth set and you've been playing for four-and-a-half hours."

FABRICE SANTORO:
Of course some are. Like in every sport where there's much money at stake. It's obvious and very unpleasant to see a doper facing you and you think I trained 3 or 4 hours a day, I made the maximum to prepare my match and he seems to have 4 lungs, he doesn't even breathe and eventually defeats me but you can't say anything because you don't have proof.

Well, you all heard Rochus. Now we all know how Fed was able to turn around the match at AO against Davy earlier this year.

Bathroom break + amphetamine = suddenly energized Fed willing 10 something straight games against Davy who was toying Fed in 1st set.

Just saying. Let the speculation begins!

willing-> winning at 2:29

I know we can't compare sports, but if a first year afl player doesn't have much of a physce say at 18 then he bulks up over the preseason which is about three months do I persume he is on steroids. No I don't because the player has prolly worked his arse in the gym and doing other things to improve his body. AFL players run all day and hardly get tired. They train for about 8 hrs a day. Typically though it can take a young player a couple of years to bulk up. With the right nutrition and gym work one can improve their body.

Nothing about Nadal screams doping.

Not his bulging biceps, not his remarkable stamina, not his impressive recovery between matches, not his agressive behaviour on cort,
not his thinning hair at age 24, not his strange form dip every fall, not his many injuries at a very young age, not his many absent periods, nothing. You are just all jealous! No?

AA Thanks for your thoughts and I agree 100%

Also Temes made a very similar post on body types and how it does depend on your body type that people can build muscle easy compared to others.

Yes indeed a proper diet and natural vitimens is the way to go for people that actually build muscle the correct way.

A young male at say 18 cannot build muscle he is still growing physucally and devloping.

The same age female is different and can build muscle at this age a woman has grown physically.

May I add further to my above post regarding a male of 18 in ways they can build muscle though they wont get the better results compared to say if they were 20 or 21.

Again it all depends on the body type and that also goes with females

Sherlock,

You'll have to try harder... even my original post contained the statistics showing that the differences in surface don't explain Nadal's yearly swings. Of course, one would expect him to juice up for the tournaments he has a better chance to win, but his success correlates much better with time of year than surface.

Annie,

First I'll say that I'm sure you're sincere and that it would be a far better world if you were right and I was just a conspiracy theorist. But I also have to say that your moniker "Vamos heavenly creature" (?!?!?!) reveals the type of religious devotion that makes it hard to see the truth. To be a fan of Nadal is one thing. To call him "heavenly" when he habitually breaks the rules and when his game is based on forcing errors and wearing down opponents physically is another. "Innocent until proven guilty" I can understand. But denying that a player who ignores the rules of the game in public and shows every performance-related sign of breaking them in private isn't at least suspicious is just plain naive.

Also most players would be working with a physical trainer who will be telling them how to bulk up with protein shakes etc etc.

To me Lopez, Verdasco and even Monaco look bigger than the average tennis player and I don't think they are doping I just think they have a good physical body.

Why do I think that this has turned into a Nadal post.

I might add that I do personal training and most of my trainers have been female. All of them have different types of bodies. A couple of them find it easy to put on muscle while the other one doesn't and has to work a bit harder.

AA Great win for Pico over Andy you must be happy

AM I have been so busy that I haven't had time to check scores but yess so happy but he did beat Andy a couple of times on clay last year.

Gee Pico makes me smile.

I looked it up about 25% of males begin balding by age 20(!) so Rafa is a part of that misfortuned group of people unfortunately. LOL It's not uncommon at all to lose hair early.

Btw I'm not someone who is in denial I keep the options open(though I seriously doubt Nadal is using drugs) but it's just unreasonable to base all accusations on such normal phenomena occuring in Nadal's body. lol

I would love to go to the Champions Tour which starts at Hombush on the 12th of November and I get free tickets as well

Alas I will be going to Melbourne that weekend

Btw I was an 11 pound baby my mom used to call me a steroid baby but my brother has always been far skinnier.

temes LOL!

With the Mexican doctor and mixing up Canas's perscription he has done it again to a female tennis player and unfortunately she got a two year ban. That doctor should be struck off the list from both tours.

I think all posters agree that we would all like to see our game of tennis a clean sport and I think on the whole compared to say other sports it has.Of course there has been instances in the past and present that players have been caught and the necessary fines have been imposed.

Though may I say in the case of Canas it was the doctors mistake with the prescription he had made out.In this case it was his fault.

There will always be athletes that will use drugs in ways authorites cannot prevent this from happening now or even in the future.The only way they can be found out is through testing.Maybe this should be done more on a continous basis.

Though I take offence at anyone that makes false allegations without proper proof.

People think tennis is "mostly clean" because there are hardly any positives.
Well there is a reason behind that. Because they do hardly any out of competition tests with no blood or epo.
You can't find something if you don't look.
It's why other sports have a clean image and cycling doesn't.

I think in the Canas's case the ATP were going to make him a scapegoat.

I would like someone to tell me how long does cocaine stay in your body and if you are using it over a number of years can it be detected.

Ok time for me to go for the day so I will catch you all tomorrow.

conversation has been very informant and sensible. Unfrtunately i didn't have time to read Steve's post, might try tomorrow.

Bye AA

Rafa tweener winner against Fed (similar to Fed's tweener winner against Isner at Shanghai this year)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqqAC2WRd3g

I didn't know Rafa had this in him. Against my old man Fed, no less.

Just reading further news on Fox sports regarding Tsonga's knee injury which now is season ending.

Gilles Simon and Richard Gasquet now come into contention for the other singles spot with the up coming tie with Serbia in the DC final in December.

Heres my question .

If your going to start testing atheletes on the grounds of integrity when it comes to using enhancement , what about every one else in jobs ( esp higher profile "players " like politicans ) ?

BTW J F Kennedy had narcotic cocktail while running the country like you wouldnt believe , and some say he was the best president of all

People are always going to look for enhancements because its breed into culture that we are never good enough as we are , when you add finacial incentive even moreso .

No one says someone who gets plastic surgery to look pretty is less credible , in fact we endorse it in even tv shows.

My point is trying to say other things like tennis isnt credible , is like saying its a world to unto itself , some utopia devoid of all suffering and misery that exists everywhere else and therefore beyond its rules.

Besides , isnt it that very detached , regimented regeime it potrays now , the very reason its no longer fun to watch ?

Does Roger Federer, or Nadal refelct the typical person we see everyday - flawed ,imperfect and what about the rest ?

Roger Federer / Nadal are not typical humans - neither is Andy Murray ( A scotsman who hates alcohol ??? )

If people cheat , its only because its instinct not just to win but because its all around them and hard to ignore ie. look at illegal file sharing

I wonder how many tennis pros have done that too ?

Just a reminder to all Rafa fans

As Rafa has already wrapped up the no 1 player of the ATP

You can vote for him as you fan favourite singles player

The Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award and the Arthur Ashe Humanitarian Award is voted by the ATP

Go to the folloing website and cast your vote remember 1 vote per valid email

http://www.atpworldtour.com/fan/fan-favourite/fan-favourite-voting.aspx.

worst article youve ever written pete

Um, letting Richard play in a DC final? I don't know about that. Especially in front of a hostile Serbian crowd.

"I personally think this whole discussion is rather pointless. Rochus' comments were so unsubstantiated that they might as well not exist. So here we go with the drugs or no drugs back and forth without anything new to add."

Very good point...but couldn't this comment apply to almost all the discussions at Tennis World, if not the entire internet?

d,

Brillian comment!

Mmmm...yawn...(rubs eyes while sipping warm morning beverage)...oh boy, amd I ever sorry I missed last night's conversation. NOT! Where the hell did all those weird people with weird monikers come from? Did someone fill up a bus?

I suppose it's just one of the negatives of the end-of-the-year stretch. People really digging to find something to fight about. Me? I'm gonna watch me some juiced up tennis! :)

Temes, "I think Justine retired to advoid a drug ban." Temes, you know how much I like you, but that is so irresponsible. Temes, where is the proof? If someone made a baseless accusation against Serena baed upon Rochus' nonsense, you wouldn't like it. Justine should be given the benefit of the doubt in the absense of proof.

should read base.

LOL at the poster who said I sounded defensive about Rafa!

If I was defensive of anyone it was of Henin and I'm not even her fan.
I am all for rigorous testing and more transparency on the reporting and if Rafael Nadal or any of my favorites is found guilty of doping I would definitely not be defending them.

Anyway, it's still interesting to see some people's perceptions... very telling indeed.

testing -- because I'm getting the "sorry, we cannot accept this data" message for a comment with no TW violations

lilscot: If you haven't left already, I want to answer your question about all the "weird people with the weird monikers": some of them are lurking trolls and others who decided to de-lurk to offer us their wisdom while others,I am sure, are regular TW posters using aliases because even they are too ashamed to have their ridiculous comments associated with their regular TW monikers. Only the mods know for sure! :)

Before I leave, let me throw out this thought/question which fits in nicely with some of the theories propounded here in the past several hours.

Should the ATP conduct a post-facto investigation of the retiring Rochus? Why? Certainly, based on the statistics presented yesterday, this relatively small player has won too many first sets 6-1 against normal sized players -- and then, on some occasions, his drug of choice (one of those quick-acting but not-too-long-lasting types), which he had ingested in the bathroom before his match, clearly ran out after one set; so he faded and lost a match he appeared poised to win. heheheheheh

See, I can offer silly theories, too, Christophe!

(Disclaimer: I have disliked Rochus since the first time he mouthed his offensive comments about women players and the women's game and women's prize money -- comments that, I've read, he repeated in his farewell interview. So,there goes yet another retiring player that I will definitely not miss. Buh bye, bitter little man!)

But, I do hope that serious discussion of the drug problem in tennis will continue and that the ATP and WTA and ITF will be alert to and make needed changes in their policies and rules.

Bodo:... the little I know about pornography.
Ah Bodo,werent you the guy I saw at Blockbuster checking out 'Open','Fist Pump','Breakpoint',and 'he is in a 2-4 hole".?
Those sunglasses and hat dint fool me.

Kimiko

Date

Krumm

takes the first set against Li Na.

Ugly match, so far.

Kimiko jumps to 5-1 lead as Li Na donates errors from both sides.

Then, three games of Kimiko FH errors and Li Na gets back to 4-5.

A game full of Li Na errors and Kimiko closes out first set.

Easy first game hold for Li Na in second set, altho Kimiko won a long point.

Manuelsantana Fan,
Thanks for the update on Bali. If Bali is streamed, that is an upgrade since I believe it was not in 2009. As you know, Ana awaits the winner.

"Some really great posts here today on this quite fascinating topic. TheTruth, Ladyjulia, Nalby Fan, Karen, on and on. Good stuff from, almost, everyone. :)"
---------------------------------------------
+ 1000

This post could have gotten ugly but for the most part stayed on track with the topic (minus a handful of posters).

Very interesting thoughts and comments. Thanks!

Bali streamed at:

http://www.fromsport.com/v-0/10/2/v-100368.html

Li Na goes up 3-1, 30-0.

Kimiko actually keeps some FHs in and Li Na self-destructs.

At 2-3, 15-15, Kimiko goes FH error, FH error, BH error.

At 4-2, Li Na goes with four UFEs early in points.

Kimiko to serve at 3-4.

When Kimiko can keep the ball in the court, she has hit a couple of nice drop shots, disrupted Li Na with slice BHs, and showed a good net game.

Just because theres no proof dosent mean nothing is going on. Thats why so many obviously guilty murderers, rapist, and other low lifes are still out here commiting crimes! Instead of asking for proof, why not investigate the acusations? Thats prolly why most people dont come out and say anything; because people like you automaticlly down grade them. If someone could get away with it, why wouldnt they? Wake up to the reality of the world everyone please!

Do you seriously expect us to believe a comment doesn't mean anything without proof? What fairy tale world do you live in? That is the most cowardly argument you could possibly put forth. Just because its unpleasant to think that our favorite players are using, and that the governing bodies are included in covering them up and allowing it to happen, doesn't mean that we should shoot someone for trying to provide information on what goes on unbenownst to the average tennis fan.

Regardless, i find your piece hypocritical, cowardly, and quite frankly reeks of cover up itself. Trying to silence the crying baby by smothering it or killing it. Babies cry for a reason. Most of us would like to find out why. Sadly, i don't even believe you believe what you are writing as it is so far removed from your earlier work. Just wanted to let you know that some of us aren't fooled, and welcome a realistic look at to what is going on in the sport we all love. Cycling fans are learning the lesson the hard way. If anyone out there believes that atheletes got doping from meat, pills someone else gave me, cream i thought was vitamins, kissing a girl who had cocaine on her lips, etc.etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum, I really feel sorry for. I wish i had swampland to sell to you. Cause you'll believe ANYTHING.

Posted by Annie (Vamos Heavenly Creature) 11/04/2010 at 12:53 AM
tennismuse: actually, nothing, nothing about Nadal screams, or even whispers "doping." Not a pimple on his body. No acne at all. No excessive body hair. No aggressive behavior. You are basing your paranoid knee jerk assertions on his biceps. He gets tested all the time. And not urine tests but blood tests. Have you ever seen his training regimen? Why don't you educate yourself and look at the numerous videos. then maybe you'll STFU"

You know if doping suspicions are going to be based on appearance and behavior, it seems Serena Williams ought to be suspect number one. Her musculature for a female is bordering on freakish, she has major mood swings sometimes even during matches, has extremely angry outbursts, sometimes with little provocation, every year takes time off from the tour for this injury or that one (which allows her to avoid testing). And if you look at her appearance from say 2003-2004, then look at the difference a year or so later until now, it's striking. And not only with added muscle bulk, but facial shape and bone growth in her face, which I guess is supposed to be a "telltale sign".. I"m not saying she is, but can't believe she wouldn't be the number one focus of doping allegations when the allegations are usually based on appearance and behavior... On non tennis and tennis related doping sites, she IS the number one focus of doping speculation. Elephant in the room no one will address?

Li Na starts hammering BH winners. Kimiko plays well on BPs, but after starting well on a S&V, stones a basic second volley into the net and gets broken.

I lose my Internet connection.

Kimiko gets to 15-40 on Li Na's serve. Two UFEs for Kimiko.

Gets another BP.

Another UFE for Kimiko.

Li Na holds for the set.

Kimiko firing more UFEs to start 3rd set. Gets broken immediately on a DF.

According to announcer, Kimiko has been broken 6 consecutive times. Sounds right.

Manuelsanatana Fan,
As you know Na and Kimiko did not want to play each other; therefore, I am not surprised that the match is an ugly one filled with UFEs. By the way, how is the court playing? Is it playing super fast if it is indoors? I can not see the match as I am at the day job.

Pete,

Are you telling us that you couldn't even be bothered to call or e-mail the ITF or ATP to get an official response to the Rochus allegations? Are you telling us that you couldn't be bothered to call or ask players to comment on the allegations? Why is this the case? I would think that picking up the phone or emailing insiders would be one of the first things a credible journalist would do.

Your complete lack of curiousity on this matter is disturbing no matter how you have rationalized it. Are you a tennis writer or a PR man for the ATP/WTA?

I guess they CAN'T play doubles in Bali :) Must admit the singles-only court makes it easier, imo, to see when the ball is in. And the orange makes for great viewing on stream. Go Kimiko!

Good morning everyone,

How on earth does Pete's article reek of a cover up ? He is a sports writer and not a private investigator. Some of the comments I've read are just plain insulting and based on pure speculation. Nobody is claiming that tennis is a drug free sport, we aren't that stupid or silly but without some hard based proof that would stand up in a court of law, then this topic has become pointless.

Some excellent comments were made by regulars here last night in this discussion but also many outlandish ones by non regulars.

MA:

Court is playing relatively fast and ball stays fairly low.

Li Na goes up 30-0 on her serve.

DF and UFE.

Kimiko gets to break point and gags on a second serve return.

Finally breaks on drop shot that Li Na nets.

Kimiko goes up 30-0, altho should have lost first point, but Li Na doesn't challenge Kimiko shot that floated out.

4 straight UFEs by Kimiko and she gets broken.

Colette,
Yes, Bali does not have a doubles tournament like Doha. When I heard about the singles only line last year, it took me a step back for a minute as most courts have doubles line on them.

MA, thanks. It is a bid odd, but kinda' fun to watch - too bad the day job doesn't "accommodate."

Relatively easy hold for Li Na.

Kimiko finally holds.

The marching band comes out. A minute worth of a fireworks show.

Some doubles was actually played earlier at Bali.

Kimiko and Rezai were winners:

http://2009.commbanktennis.com/2009-view.php?subaction=showfull&id=1288773139&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2,14&

30-3-0 on Li Na's serve

Colette
+1 on the day job as streaming is banned(except the USO)

Kimiko plays two points where her FH doesn't break down and breaks Li Na.

3-3.

Li Na's FH largely misfires next game and Kimiko holds for 4-3.

"Na and Kimiko did not want to play each other"

MA - why is that?

GC20,
Both of them from the Asian part of the world and if I recall, they practice with each other but we know how the draw works.

3 UFES gets Li Na into all sorts of trouble.

At 0-30, Kimiko fires FH return long.

At BP, Kimiko dumps FH into net.

Li Na survives to 4-4.

ManuelsantanaFan,
Will be interesting to see how many UFEs both ladies have when the match is done?

RE: "Doping reminds me of the little I know about pornography".

...........

Well Pete, in that also, most people know a lot more than they want to talk about.

Yeah, Kimiko holds and will be receiving for the match.

Ruth:

I just got back in Ruth and caught your comment. You know, I had that same feeling when I was reading over the comments from last night. The first thing that came to my mind was that it was either one of two new posters using serveral different monikers, or old regulars who were just hiding behind fake names.

The one comment from one of our more level-headed posters, and at the moment I apologize but I can't remember the name. They were responding to one of "those" comments saying that certain players were so muscular, etc. Their response to that silly notion was perfect. They said something to the effect that a professional athlete is supposed to be muscular and fit.

This isn't golf or bowling where you can not be in shape and drink beer all during your match. These are highly trained professional athletes playing a very physical sport. For the NOT to be muscular would be nuts.

Kimiko goes up 30-0, using an exquisite drop shot on one point.

Li Na gets back to 30-30 but two UFEs and Kimiko holds.

I guess I must be doping myself...
really some ridiculous points up here!!!let me concentrate on how Na Li is doing!

Two UFEs and Li Na looking at 0-40, three match points.

Saves first with deep second serve, great approach shot.

Saves second at end of long rally with a good drop shot.

Saves third when Kimiko hits second serve off tape.

Gets to a game point, but Kimiko hits FH winner.

Kimiko stretches Li Na on FH side and Li Na hits xcourt FH wide.

Li Na DFs on 4th match point.

Wonder if Li Na will be playing Asian Games this month. Maybe she'll get a chance for revenge there.

Great! David Nalbandian has just served out his match against Marin Cilic! I like Cilic, but Nalbandian is such a pleasure to watch when he is playing well - fabulous talent.

test

tennismuse: how does rafa "show every sign of breaking the rules in private?" what do you know about his private life? As I said last night, I've seen tapes of his workouts and they are back breakingly strenuous. His muscles are natural and he came by them the old-fashioned way, with hard work. Yes, I think he's a heavenly creature for the person he is on the inside as well as the outside. You think he cheats on court? what, because he takes an extra minute to suck down energy gel? That's cheating to you? And he used to be slow to serve but not anymore.

We've read your hollow theory and frankly, no one's buying it.

Annie:

Dear Annie, I feel your pain. I only wish those people hadn't turned what was a sensible conversation into a page out of the National Enquirer. Do you think they'll go away soon? I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they somehow got off the bus at the wrong stop and will soon realize this and leave us in relative peace again. :)

federer fan wrong. delpo, nalbandy, tsonga , tomas b, ......i will say fed brought me back to mens tennis,though....sorry sfr, u wrong again kid....wake up, and i bet u are a fan of cheaters,oh i mean nadal,do u pick your azz too, or grunt like a girl? maybe your dad helps u cheat?etc.....

Hi everyone! Just popping in for a bit!

Pete,

What do you make of the comments of these obscure players?

Mardy Fish (April 6, 2010): “This is my 11th year. I've seen a few guys come and go who have cheated and he [Wayne Odesnik] seems to be no different."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6947113.html

Mahesh Bhupathi (Feb 14, 2009): “The tennis players themselves have brought it (anti-doping rules) upon themselves. A lot of players have been cheating."

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/players-to-blame-for-new-dope-rules-says-bhupathi/423468/

Oh, and don't forgot the comments by Daniel Nestor (some little known guy who has won multiple grand slams for doubles).

Nestor (September 9, 2009): “We suspect that there’s always stuff going on. I mean, we watch some of these matches, the guys play five hours and come back the next day and do it again.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/sports/tennis/10doping.html

What would you like to say to them?

Very interesting Fish quote. You see it seems the cheaters "come and go" - in the long run I don't think doping brings you to the top of the game and you stay there. For that you have to have the natural talent and mindset. The Odesniks are basically losers to begin with and then dope out of desperation. The players like Nadal who has been at the top of the sport for many years and has been tested over and over again, are clean imo. That quote by Nestor is woefully ignorant. He should talk to long distance runners who run 10-15 miles a day. He's a doubles specialist who doesn't have to be in anything like the shape of the top singles players.

Apparently there are people here who don't think it's possible for someone to do steroids at age 18. That's been going on for at least 25 years, since I was in high school and kids were doing steroids at 15,16 years old.

That people would scoff at such a notion only shows their complete ignorance on the subject. No wonder they think it's impossible that tennis stars are doping.

I just want to say something about this muscularity thing:

Some people imply that Nadal is big and abnormally muscular (people believe it as if it's gospel truth). To me, he is just an average, well-built guy. He has a beautiful physique, but not muscular in the body-building kind of way. When Federer and Nadal stand and sit beside each other, they look about the same size breadthwise. Federer looks powerful in the shoulder-chest area. The difference in the size or shape of individual muscles in arms, abdomen, buttocks, legs --- the overall look, has more to do about the uniqueness of each individual.

Annie,

Who are you to dismiss Nestor's comments as "woefully ignorant"?

Anyways, here's something from the world of cycling:

Bernard Kohl: “I was tested 200 times during my career, and 100 times I had drugs in my body. I was caught, but 99 other times, I wasn’t. Riders think they can get away with doping because most of the time they do. Even if there is a new test for blood doping, I’m not even sure it will scare riders into stopping. The problem is just that bad.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/cycling/05cycling.html?_r=1

So, lots of passed tests doesn't mean much.

Pete,

A great article. Rochus seems to have achieved his goal and drew some attention, if not for his results, for his controversial accusations. I am so glad that you wrote about this.

If there is hard evidence about doping and if Rocjus knew about it, he should have informed the ATP. Why talk about it now when he is 237th!?

I hope ATP take action on this. Rochus has to be questioned and has to give all "he knows" to ATP. Then the ATP should take action on those who really did use doping or against Rochus for defaming the sport.

And lastly, tennis is based on skills more than just energy. The players still have to be technically supreme. Something Rochus never was and never will be.

Pete,

Sorry, I forgot to mention Jim Courier in 1999:

"EPO is the problem, I have pretty strong suspicions that guys are using it on the tour. I see guys who are out there week in and week out without taking rests. EPO can help you when it's the fifth set and you've been playing for four-and-a-half hours.''

http://www.newsweek.com/1999/02/14/the-real-scandal.html

Also, as an antidote to Pete's piece here, is this excellent article by Bill Gifford from July 1, 2009:

"While the rest of the sporting world morphs into something resembling pro wrestling, tennis upholds the gentlemanly image of a game untouched by the steroids, blood-boosters, stimulants, and other doping practices that have become almost universal in athletics. How has tennis maintained its pristine reputation? Because the sport's anti-doping program is a joke."

http://www.slate.com/id/2221980

First off about Justine and those allegations about doping. NO one took them seriously at the time because it was the father of the person she beat for the title that he accused of doping. It came off at the time and was later taken as sour grapes and it was one of the things that damaged the friendship between Henin and Clijsters. They seem to have moved past that and don't you think that if Clijsters seriously thought that Henin doped she would have backed her father? She would have been in the best position to either confirm or deny the reports. As far as Philip de Wulf is concerned, he later apologized for appearing to confirm what Leo Clijsters alleged.

It's appalling to me that people reported and/or take what Christophe Rochus seriously. He's the most minor of ATP players in Belgium and has been obsessed with the amount of coverage he and other male players get from the Belgian media. He threw that in just to make news in Belgium and try to have the last laugh. Instead he came off as a buffoon.

In regards to doping: Who knows if it's going on? I think some people may be using steroids, but not as many as players might think. It's incredibly risky to be using PEDs and I have to think that if any player is using, other players would know and report them. Who is going to let someone else take money from them and knowingly let them cheat in a one-on-one sport? No one who really wants to win, and all of them want to win. Some of it is paranoia, I think. I think lower ranked players are the ones who are far more likely to use PEDs as they are trying to get to the upper echelon where the money is. It also sounds like a bunch of people need to get over their Nadal obsessions when talking about steroids. He hasn't ever been accused or even thought to be using steroids except by people who obviously have an agenda. Get over it people, he's just that physically fit. The same can be said for Federer. He's been at an unimaginable level for so long because he's physically fit and trains to play many matches in a row and many 5 setters.

nandrone,does not give you big arms. energy to work out ,the way you want?etc......pardon my spelling,just drank some,going to run to china now,man i feel great, if this shit wears out ill find a toilet and do some more. steroids don,t mean big muscle,s you dumb azzes............

Interesting Slate article. Though it's funny that he says, "Even John McEnroe admitted taking corticosteroids during his career", like it's something earth-shattering. I took corticosteroids for quite some time. The author is quite confused on that one. :)

Good Morning Everyone,

I would like a Drug Free day

Karin1492 Good post I have just finished reading it.

Yes, tennis anyone? Andy Roiddick is up a set and a break on Golubev.